tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5366621735995057721.post4862363196250463211..comments2024-03-17T09:17:01.454+00:00Comments on Vic the Vicar!: Middle Ground - A Guest writes:Vic Van Den Berghhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09581156515370131898noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5366621735995057721.post-79454256301851505272011-11-20T06:46:07.253+00:002011-11-20T06:46:07.253+00:00Thank you to everyone who has posted comments here...Thank you to everyone who has posted comments here. My hope is that many Christians would consider a move to this position in order that we can all get on with doing what we are called to do – extending grace, without being judgemental. Then, somehow, we need to get that message out to our communities. These are exciting times, despite the tension, and we have some work ahead of us but also real opportunities to make positive changes in this area.Jane Newshamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5366621735995057721.post-75733482951249637602011-11-19T21:50:35.799+00:002011-11-19T21:50:35.799+00:00well done "Vic the Vicar' for allowing so...well done "Vic the Vicar' for allowing someone who may well differ from your own position to put theirs.<br /><br />If only all the Church acted as you do we might still have our differences but at least there would be respect and Christian love.<br /><br />Well done youAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5366621735995057721.post-61547267793287264472011-11-19T16:17:17.958+00:002011-11-19T16:17:17.958+00:00Jane = thank you - that's most helpful. I agre...Jane = thank you - that's most helpful. I agree that providing opportunities for constructive discussion would be extremely helpful. At its best, Inclusive Church have sometimes enabled that to happen.Canon Andrew Godsallnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5366621735995057721.post-47600634532444438412011-11-19T14:53:45.007+00:002011-11-19T14:53:45.007+00:00I did start to dialogue internally and share it pu...I did start to dialogue internally and share it publicly but I'm afraid that it attracted comments from people who neither wish to see a middle ground or exhibit anything that might appear to be in the slightest bit Christian and so, rather than feed the morons, I have resisted.<br /><br />Perhaps another day?<br /><br />Thanks for comments - keep them coming,<br /><br />VicVic Van Den Berghhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09581156515370131898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5366621735995057721.post-84140983049870321022011-11-19T12:11:48.192+00:002011-11-19T12:11:48.192+00:00It might have been good if you had completed the v...It might have been good if you had completed the various sections and discussed where you stood on these Vicar. Why did you stop as I found your comments were revealing and encouraging?<br /><br />My views are that, as a Gay man, the issues covered here don't go far enough and the only way is to be fully accepted and actively promoted. Anything else is merely words and I am fed up with listening to them. Accept and affirm of be forced to leave the church to those who will and will make it acceptable to allAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5366621735995057721.post-17242678524230301122011-11-18T17:51:10.895+00:002011-11-18T17:51:10.895+00:00I find this comforting to those who are not necess...I find this comforting to those who are not necessarily on the middle ground, but are seeking to move towards it.<br /><br />Lots of stuff I could subscribe to, if it were not maintaining a status quo, that is still not inclusive and doesn't seek to condemn exclusion.<br /><br />It isn't affirming to those LBGT people who feel that they are considered to be second-class Christians and are only accepted on sufferance, not for their identity, as unique beings, created in God's likeness, as we all are.<br /><br />Not sure that I would be able to remain in such a community.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5366621735995057721.post-62472702685770619802011-11-18T14:11:44.380+00:002011-11-18T14:11:44.380+00:00Middle Ground is merely a nice way of saying we do...Middle Ground is merely a nice way of saying we don't accept you or the way you are made but we won't scream or condemn you.<br /><br />Only full acceptance is acceptable and anything else is to be opposed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5366621735995057721.post-55244998831426216882011-11-18T14:02:25.617+00:002011-11-18T14:02:25.617+00:00Can such a middle ground community ever really aff...Can such a middle ground community ever really affirm anything?Undergroundpewsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10182191422663119484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5366621735995057721.post-85209873114356045832011-11-18T12:32:23.351+00:002011-11-18T12:32:23.351+00:00Andrew, thanks for your comment. I mean by 'c...Andrew, thanks for your comment. I mean by 'church practice' the degree to which individual churches take positive steps to become just as welcoming to gay people as they do to everyone else. My experience is that within most churches this just 'evolves' if it is going to happen at all, but perhaps opportunities to discuss this constructively would be helpful to everyone, whatever their viewpoint.Jane Newshamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5366621735995057721.post-62311186687401079032011-11-18T09:33:21.815+00:002011-11-18T09:33:21.815+00:00To avoid any further confusion I have put my words...To avoid any further confusion I have put my words in italics.<br /><br />PaxVic Van Den Berghhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09581156515370131898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5366621735995057721.post-2667744842729920732011-11-18T09:29:25.749+00:002011-11-18T09:29:25.749+00:00I'm afraid I can't for, as the title sugge...I'm afraid I can't for, as the title suggests, it was written by a guest.<br /><br />Hopefully she, Jane, will read your question and answer for herself.<br /><br />Sorry I can't be much help on this one, I merely posted the contents of her 'Middle Ground' document so other might read and respond to her.<br /><br />I watch this space with interest,<br /><br />VVic Van Den Berghhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09581156515370131898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5366621735995057721.post-79139349173292899922011-11-18T09:10:49.780+00:002011-11-18T09:10:49.780+00:00"...but are questioning church practice on in..."...but are questioning church practice on inclusion,"<br /><br />Perhaps you could explain what this phrase means Vic? What are you referring to and what do you propose instead? I have no idea what you mean in this phrase.Canon Andrew Godsallnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5366621735995057721.post-22019903739022738852011-11-17T23:54:44.262+00:002011-11-17T23:54:44.262+00:00Thank you. I like this, I could worship in a commu...Thank you. I like this, I could worship in a community which sought to carry it out. But as a transsexual woman, if anyone says I am not a proper Christian for expressing myself as God made me, I would respond angrily and shortly and I would expect support on that, citing Romans 14:4, not neutrality. Also, rather than theological debate on the meaning of "arsenokoitai" a more likely threat might be little cliques over coffee after. Difficult.Clare Flourishhttp://clareflourish.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5366621735995057721.post-75378859140212576442011-11-17T19:01:04.687+00:002011-11-17T19:01:04.687+00:00It makes a lot of sense to me, Vic! It's somet...It makes a lot of sense to me, Vic! It's something I could be comfortable with as an evangelical, who has gay friends, and understands a little bit of "where they are coming from." I doubt "the middle ground" will be satisfying to gay Christians though!Anitahttp://dreamingbeneaththespires.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.com