tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5366621735995057721.post6459616703482145115..comments2024-03-17T09:17:01.454+00:00Comments on Vic the Vicar!: Church as a place: of SafetyVic Van Den Berghhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09581156515370131898noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5366621735995057721.post-27708812165412129172013-11-08T05:08:44.599+00:002013-11-08T05:08:44.599+00:00Perhaps that's because I'm not trying to &...Perhaps that's because I'm not trying to 'argue' anything ;-)<br /><br />Seems that much of the problem that troubles and weakens Church is the fact that everyone feels they have to argue - perhaps we need to look for the things that unite rather than fight to make them approve and more besides.<br /><br />If we expend all our energies on conflict Church will never be a safe place. Dialogue is not coercion, ridicule or ad hominem - it's the affording of respect (both ways) and the exercise of tolerance (so choice, even when it's not ours doesn't deserve that which so many respond with).<br /><br />And 'Yes' I realised you were :-). God bless you too.<br /><br />Vic Van Den Berghhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09581156515370131898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5366621735995057721.post-1042549662052166742013-11-08T04:29:28.540+00:002013-11-08T04:29:28.540+00:00I am gay. Frankly, I have no idea what you are try...I am gay. Frankly, I have no idea what you are trying to argue. God bless anyway. Lorenzohttp://www.exclusivechurch.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5366621735995057721.post-77358075402286407152013-11-07T13:32:00.410+00:002013-11-07T13:32:00.410+00:00Well then - I'll let you off (but I do tire of...Well then - I'll let you off (but I do tire of those 'orthodox' and 'liberal' who continually want to throw bricks at me because I'm not what they are :-))<br /><br />I haven't changed my opinion that we all engage with people in many settings and scenarios and when we do, we need to help them come to a place where what they do is in concord with whatever it is that they need to be doing.<br /><br />I don't think we develop relationships to gain access so that we can issue correctives and opinions but when we are in a relationship where respect and love enables us to dialogue, offer opinions and even suggest correctives then we do.<br /><br />The interesting thing is that the only person who has associated 'sin' with 'gay' is you (which is a reason to smile methinks).<br /><br />If you read me a bit you'll find that I have become a bit of a pariah with some because I cannot advocate using the Eucharist as a weapon and then treated equally in the same manner by those who annoyed that I cannot say I approve of lifestyle choices (and they deny that there is ever a choice involved which only makes my position even more untenable to them).<br /><br />I try to minister God's love and grace and live as best I can whilst fulfilling he call I have before me - not sure I need any more difficulty than that most days.<br /><br />Thanks for coming back - VVic Van Den Berghhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09581156515370131898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5366621735995057721.post-43841500095418645322013-11-07T12:40:22.092+00:002013-11-07T12:40:22.092+00:00I did not mean to be harsh, but you did write, a c...I did not mean to be harsh, but you did write, a couple of years ago that you felt yourself, quote, 'to have a duty to form relationships with them and lead them away from their sin.' That, to me, is neither neutral, nor accepting and sure does not feel safe. It's not an assumption, it's what you wrote. And thanks, we're all fascists these daysLorenzohttp://www.exclusivechurch.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5366621735995057721.post-27551574630402368402013-11-07T09:13:07.956+00:002013-11-07T09:13:07.956+00:00Since you don't have a scooby about how, who o...Since you don't have a scooby about how, who or what where I am I'll merely assume your comment is trying to be provocative, clever or face value. So - taking it as the latter I'd have to say that church has to be a safe place for everyone regardless - that's my policy anyway.<br /><br />Having worked with homosexuals, trans and bi's (and others) I have always help provide places of acceptance and dialogue. Wearing my counselling hat I would have been comfortable at working with (and uncomfortable at their experiences I'm sure) of those who have engaged with corrective therapy - it's as abhorrent as those who presume to make the assumptions I fear you probably are)<br /><br />Still fascists exist both sides of the line don't they?<br /><br />Thanks for the comments<br /><br />Trust you're happy but wonder if you might be disappointed (as is my experience these days)<br /><br />PaxVic Van Den Berghhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09581156515370131898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5366621735995057721.post-25314276580255128042013-11-07T08:47:41.228+00:002013-11-07T08:47:41.228+00:00What about a gay kid who'd walk into your chur...What about a gay kid who'd walk into your church, Vic, considering that you consider yourself to "have the duty to form relationships with him and lead him away from their sin?" Would that feel like a safe place for him? Would you truly listen? Or what about a couple of my older parishioners who have known the delights of corrective therapy? Lorenzohttp://www.exclusivechurch.comnoreply@blogger.com