LEAVE
One of the more popular areas of conversation I have had relates to the 'fact' that leaving the EU will set British citizens free from EU laws and will guarantee our sovereignty and national identity. Leaving will enable us to break free from the shackles with which the EU binds us.
The European Union has no military might and none of the member states are occupied by force, or consent - it is not federal (even though that Naughty Ted Heath had that in mind when he duplicitously took the UK in to it!) and has no overarching government either - just a talking shop!
There are both the European Commission and the European Council, but the UK plays a major part in the debate and deliberations of both. So what is the root of this desire to break free from the chains of unwanted legislation?
Could it be Boris Johnson's bent banana and square strawberries (not a metaphor for his naughty bits) and the claim that peanuts must have "contains nuts' labels (mind you, might be useful on the door of the House of Commons) have helped people to think that we are wasting millions on silly legislation?
Perhaps it's the fact that (as me dear old Dad used to say) the EU makes the UK comply with laws whilst the rest (with Dad it was always Italy) just ignore them, subsidise their companies and act in a generally dodgy manner.
Generally this 'freedom' is about sovereignty and parliamentary powers - we are not the masters of our own nation - which is the reason Henry VIII booted Rome out and created the CofE - so why should there be any doubt that this is a right move? Why should we let Johnny Foreigner meddle with us and our laws? After all, the European commission creates all sorts of directives, demands and laws; all of which we have to implement. If we were free then we would be the masters of our own destiny - Rule Britannia and all that stuff.
The same goes for all that civil rights tosh - the stuff that stops us acting as we see fit rather than toe the line because a load of liberal, tree-hugging types say so (a quote from a conversation with a 'Better Out' person). If we want to send a terrorist to the US then we should be able to - anything else is against our security and sovereignty.
Yes indeed - we are better off out because then, "We will be free to act however we want with no one to tell us what to do!" (another quote).
STAY
The first response has to be to quote that last statement:
"We will be free to act however we want with no one to tell us what to do!"
I hate to say it but it sounds like something a child might say when baulking against parental influence - but then again, if we could have divorced ourselves from our parent, wouldn't that have made our life great? We could have done whatever we wanted with no interference or comment - sounds like hell rather than heaven to me!!!
But let's not get personal - let's look at facts:
first and foremost with regard to EU directives and laws, these have to be to be approved by the council, and voted on in the EU parliament and Britain plays a major part in this - it has a voice that is heard and (generally) respected . If we were to leave and yet still seek to do trade with the EU (our biggest market) then we would need to comply with EU laws and regulations. But being outside we would merely receive them rather than shape or influence them - so what we have is no less a submitting to EU legal things, merely a removing of any power to influence them.
With regards to human rights - we were one of the founders of the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) and even were we to leave the EU, we would still be bound by its ruling. As to being freer, who in their right mind would want to see anything that protects their human rights limited? Surely a no-brainer of a question!
Bottom line is that to leave does not take away the warrant of law or the decision handed down by European Courts of Justice or Human Rights, it merely takes away any potential for our nation shaping them. Seems to me to be a negative rather than anything positive in this area of consideration.
The European Union has no military might and none of the member states are occupied by force, or consent - it is not federal (even though that Naughty Ted Heath had that in mind when he duplicitously took the UK in to it!) and has no overarching government either - just a talking shop!
There are both the European Commission and the European Council, but the UK plays a major part in the debate and deliberations of both. So what is the root of this desire to break free from the chains of unwanted legislation?
Could it be Boris Johnson's bent banana and square strawberries (not a metaphor for his naughty bits) and the claim that peanuts must have "contains nuts' labels (mind you, might be useful on the door of the House of Commons) have helped people to think that we are wasting millions on silly legislation?
Perhaps it's the fact that (as me dear old Dad used to say) the EU makes the UK comply with laws whilst the rest (with Dad it was always Italy) just ignore them, subsidise their companies and act in a generally dodgy manner.
Generally this 'freedom' is about sovereignty and parliamentary powers - we are not the masters of our own nation - which is the reason Henry VIII booted Rome out and created the CofE - so why should there be any doubt that this is a right move? Why should we let Johnny Foreigner meddle with us and our laws? After all, the European commission creates all sorts of directives, demands and laws; all of which we have to implement. If we were free then we would be the masters of our own destiny - Rule Britannia and all that stuff.
The same goes for all that civil rights tosh - the stuff that stops us acting as we see fit rather than toe the line because a load of liberal, tree-hugging types say so (a quote from a conversation with a 'Better Out' person). If we want to send a terrorist to the US then we should be able to - anything else is against our security and sovereignty.
Yes indeed - we are better off out because then, "We will be free to act however we want with no one to tell us what to do!" (another quote).
STAY
The first response has to be to quote that last statement:
"We will be free to act however we want with no one to tell us what to do!"
I hate to say it but it sounds like something a child might say when baulking against parental influence - but then again, if we could have divorced ourselves from our parent, wouldn't that have made our life great? We could have done whatever we wanted with no interference or comment - sounds like hell rather than heaven to me!!!
But let's not get personal - let's look at facts:
first and foremost with regard to EU directives and laws, these have to be to be approved by the council, and voted on in the EU parliament and Britain plays a major part in this - it has a voice that is heard and (generally) respected . If we were to leave and yet still seek to do trade with the EU (our biggest market) then we would need to comply with EU laws and regulations. But being outside we would merely receive them rather than shape or influence them - so what we have is no less a submitting to EU legal things, merely a removing of any power to influence them.
With regards to human rights - we were one of the founders of the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) and even were we to leave the EU, we would still be bound by its ruling. As to being freer, who in their right mind would want to see anything that protects their human rights limited? Surely a no-brainer of a question!
Bottom line is that to leave does not take away the warrant of law or the decision handed down by European Courts of Justice or Human Rights, it merely takes away any potential for our nation shaping them. Seems to me to be a negative rather than anything positive in this area of consideration.
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