A Sceptic's View - a guest writes:

An interesting contribution to the discussion from someone I dialogue with regarding the issue of faith, belief, atheism and reason. An account of their position as a self-confessed Sceptic:

"Firstly, nearly all atheists are sceptics, and their atheism comes from their scepticism.
Secondly most sceptics are frightened of ghosts and of alien abduction. Sceptics never get haunted and they are never abducted, and hence it keeps us safe.

Atheists are sceptics that focus on belief in God, other sceptics (such as Carl Sagan) focus on aliens, others on alternative medicine (my friend at work asked someone that believed in homoeopathy “what do you call alternative medicine that works?” His answer – medicine), others on astrology, others on ghosts, others on creationism, others on history revision, others on moon landing conspiracies (we didn’t land on the moon – it was all filmed in a warehouse on Mars), others on…

You get the idea.
What is most interesting is that, from a sceptics point of view, all of these are the same. We say the same things to each of the groups and get the same response back.
We ask for evidence of X.

Believers of X say The evidence is there if you look at it in the right way.

We say that evidence should be objective and amenable to science.

Some say that X is perfectly scientific and there is evidence but the scientific community refuse to listen. Others say that there are reasons why, despite making claims that seem testable, science will never be able to investigate the claims (I think this is called special pleading).

Then we go round in circles.

What is actually more interesting to me is that some of these believers follow this in debating other believers but don’t apply the same process to their own belief. A sceptic is basically somebody that applies this to all their own views. What is often overlooked by people is that sceptics are nearly always tougher on their own views than they are on other peoples.

Many years ago, before I was calling myself a sceptic, My wife came up to me to tell me that she had heard a news report that showed I was right about something (I can’t remember what it was now).

The next thing I said was “what was the sample size?” and she knew, she had remembered because she knew I would ask.

Even when being shown I was right I tested the evidence.

How to become a believer
In our garden there is a group of three pots. One of these keeps on falling over.
I can imagine someone coming to our house and saying that fairies are doing this. Being a Sagan believing sceptic, I say show me the evidence. They say all you need to do is take the step of belief and then you will see.

Having been worn down by many people saying just take the first step and it will all be clear, I decide to take that step this time. I decide to believe.

Now I believe in fairies.

Now I have evidence for fairies every time that the pot falls over.

If a sceptic now comes to me I will point out that it is their lack of belief that is preventing them from seeing the evidence right in front of their eyes. I can say this because I used to be a sceptic and then saw the truth. They go to the trouble of checking the pot and see that it is a little top heavy and, with our dogs running round it will be the one most likely to fall. I point out that I can remember a time when it was upright and later on its side and I am sure that the dogs were not in the garden at that time. Can they explain that?

As they can’t provide a scientific explanation of this particular time, this proves that their science cannot explain everything and the only rational thing to do is continue with my belief."

Tried, Tested and Approved

The whole point of being ordained, as far as I am concerned, anyway is that it makes a statement about the person who is ordained and on the way to this overarching and grand statement, there are a number of subtexts running in the foreground.

The first of these is that the person has been approved of by their own family and was considered by them to have been a person in whom they could trust and in whom the 'obvious' (and interesting word) witness of God's calling upon their life could be seen.

This is sometimes a problem because people mistake 'calling' with being busy and doing lots in their church family (and sometimes even wider than that). Because someone leads services, is the first to arrive and the last to leave, takes on every tasks that's going and gets stuck in is not, in itself, 'the' indicator that calling exists. This is one of the problems that I encounter quite frequently, a person comes to me and says they have to be ordained because they don't have time to do everything they do and work as well. This says more about time management and the ability to say no (which I don't appear to have done by the way!) than calling to ministry and the key here is to help the person step back and see what else is there. We need people who can, and will, work but calling is about more than just doing - it is not a functional thing (honest).

Calling is about many things and some of the most important are also the most easily missed but those around us are often the first to discern a sense of vocation and then they need to help us realise and be able to vocalise that calling and that it is within the church (i.e. CofE). Sounds silly but there are a number of people who ask me about training in the CofE so that one day they can be pastors elsewhere!

Another of these, in what is often one of the least spoken of areas , because it is usually one of the least visible, is in the area of personal spirituality. Is there a regular prayer life? Is it vibrant and does it indicate a living and ongoing relationship with God (F, S & HS)? It needs to be because when the desert times come, when you feel alone and abused 9and you will), you need to know the power of prayer and meditation on God's words lifting you up to Isaiah 40's 'Eagle's Wings' and Psalm 91's 'hand'.

I was sent a person with the note, "No one likes this person and we think they might have a calling and leave us for college and training!" Wow, what a recommendation - was it a calling or a desire to offload the person onto someone else? But how we relate to others is part of the call, especially as ministry is collaborative, not a chain of command scenario. Do with bring unity or merely command it )Right, when I give the order, you will all be one. Unite!)

Another subtext is that the ordination process looks for people who know there is something that is 'calling' them to put off their daily life and take up a life of servanthood and ministry. Often they can't articulate it. I often ask, "What difference would being ordained make to you. What could you do then that you can't now?" If they say, "Live in a vicarage," (and one actually did) you're in for an interesting day!

Those who come for ordination has to display a faith in God and the desire to take it further so that the journey to the Cross and God's love illumines and consumes them. They know they're flawed and fallible and want to see more of Jesus when they look in the mirror and want that for others too!

So, what is the grand statement you ask (bored of all the intervening words)? It is this:

Ordination takes a person and tests them to see if there is any of the element 'calling' found in the person seeking to be ordained. It trains them and tests them and turns up the heat and then it ordains them, places them in a job (the role of Curate - which is not like 'fagging' as one Rector told me. i.e. the place where you get your own back for your curacy experiences!) which turns up the heat and asks them to do things 'they just aren't called to do'. It places them in relationship with people they would never normally be in relationship with and it asks them to meet people in some of the deepest human needs you can think of, and it watches.
And having watched, it priests you and expands the experience and tests and challenges and tests and watches.

Ordination is about submission to authority. Just as Nehemiah's submission to his king meant that he had authority, so to do we, when we submit, have authority.

Ordination tries, tests, trains, approves and releases us to care for God's people. It is not a simple process and it is uniformly different for each one of us, for we are individuals, in that it is about His calling (it's not ours) ek klesia (called out) as laos (God's people in submission and obedience.

PAx