Wednesday 10 September 2014

Church: The nightclub theory

Speaking to one of my soldiers this week I was impressed by his assessment of Church; their erudite and succinct summing up of the whole shebang went like this*:

"If the Church was a nightclub it would be the empty one in town with just a few losers in it!"

So I asked them to expand and they told me that 'the' place to be in any town was:

The one that was consistent in terms of good music and 'sound' DJs. They continued by saying,

The place where all the smart people went and where people went to be seen with them, and

+ The place where, because of the thing above, you wanted to be seen and known as being a part of.

"Your problem Padre is that you don't attract the smart people, you attract the losers, and they don't look very appealing do they? No disrespect!"

And there is no disrespect or offence taken by the words because - damn it - They are probably right!

Another soldier chipped in and told me of their (recent) experience at a baptism whereby the place was cold and unappealing - even though it was a pretty building and the temperature, and sun, were high - and the people were. Well actually I cant repeat the words that followed but suffice to say they weren't the best adverts for the faith I've come across!!!

So I asked them what they wanted and they said:



Somewhere friendly



People who engaged and didn't make them (the visitors) feel like they were being looked down on them and make them feel like . . .   (I'm sure you'll think of a word)





A place where they felt the people around actually believed something (and this is the interesting bit) 'Even when they knew it might not be popular'/



So here's a little food for thought. I'm going back into the bar before the week ends and I hope by then I have some responses to offer (knowing me I'm sure I will ;-)  )

Happy Wednesday - How's Church where you are?




* And I know this is correct because I asked them to repeat it so I could write it down.

8 comments:

JonG said...

Your third point is interesting, and encouraging - it made me recall Screwtape's description of a cleric:

"At the first of these the Vicar is a man who has been so long engaged in watering down the faith to make it easier for supposedly incredulous and hard-headed congregation that it is now he who shocks his parishioners with his unbelief, not vice versa."

The Nightclub analogy, I find harder, as I have never given two hoots about being seen in the trendy places. I would want to ask if, if one gets to know the "smart people", they actually live up to their image. And do they want to be in the fancy places because they really Do like the music and the people, or just because other people think it is the cool place to be. Plenty of people fritter lives away in things that they do not enjoy because of the social cachet - or as Screwtape also wrote, about a patient of his who realised to late the "I have spent my life doing neither what I Should have done, nor what I Enjoyed doing."

Not sure about my Church - I did do some shopping around, and went to several that were friendly and appeared to have the right ingredients, but somehow they didn't make a satisfying meal, to stretch the analogy a bit. I struggle to say what individual ingredient where I have ended up that was obviously different when I first went.But a friend, who only started going because his wife would no longer only attend on the alternate Sundays that he worked, was at first suspicious of the friendship he encountered until he realised that it was genuine, and not out to get something from him.

Vic Van Den Bergh said...

For me the 'smart people' would need to be what they looked like and if I foud they were posers then I'd walk. So we need our smart people to be authentic Christians and live with them because finding whatever it was that was attrictive was also real would seal the deal for me.

UKViewer said...

I'm not sure that those who go to night clubs are the 'smart people' they're just normal people, out for a good time and perhaps socialise in an uninhibited way. That doesn't make them smart, just normal human beings like the rest of us.

In my view, the 'smart people' are the people of God, who live out their faith, whether in church or in the community and are unafraid to exhibit their faith in an generously and wherever they are, night club, the work place or among their community.

Identifying all Christians by an expletive is the mistake that so many make, when there are hundreds and thousands of us striving to be disciples, wherever we are. And in general the presentation from those I know in our parish and in our fellow Christians in other denominations that we work with is pretty good, 'smart people' who belong in our community and happen to be Christian and who might or might not go to a particular church.

My experience of Army life as a Christian (once I converted) was wholly positive, people were interested, asked questions about my experience and wanted to know more. I know that indirectly, my witness helped one person to make a decision to renew his baptist roots, while others at least asked interesting questions and none dissed Christians or God either. Whether your young soldiers are representative of a general view across their age group or the army I don't know, I can only quote my own experience.

We can deplore the lack of good Christian education in schools or the decline in church attendance, or we can get off our backsides and be a strong Christian witness in our communities - I know which one I prefer.

JonG said...

UKViewer - you've reminded me of the Street Angels, which I believe Viv is involved with too. I don't tend to be out in toan late on a Friday night these days, but I get the impression that they are generally well thought of even by a drunk Saturday night crowd.
I have sometimes wondered how often the Christian aspect is recognised, but then a couple from my Church recently gave a talk on their work as Festival Angels at the Leeds festival (which apparently arose from an elderly local lady led to pray about what she could offer for the tens of thousands of attendees). As they had £5.00 coffee mug with free weekend refills operating from their prayer tent, the Christian aspect was unmissable, but didn't stop long queues. They also ran the Lost and Found service to great effect.

JonG said...

Sorry, Vic! Vic, not Viv.

I must use the Preview.
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etc.

UKViewer said...

Thanks JonG.

I'm aware of Vic's involvement with Street Angels and his dual roles as a Parish Priest, missioner and Reservist Padre, among many others no doubt that I'm not aware off.

He sets us challenges via his blog, that I enjoy, because they help me to think out stuff that might be reflected in my own faith life, my parish or as in this case, the unit that he is serving with as Padre (I'm aware as I had connections with them in the past while I was serving).

I'm pretty sure that when he follows up this blog entry, there will be some helpful insights that can be put into good effect wider, if people are willing too, that is.

Unknown said...

821I'm tempted to say the church should be for the losers, after all this is what Paul had to say on the matter:

26 Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. 30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31 Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.”

Has this soldier you talked to actually attended a church? Is he speaking from first hand experience, or just from prejudice? There are also problems with his analogy - as there are with any analogy. Because this just feeds into the consumer mentality, that we go where the music is best, where they serve the cheapest drinks, etc. Church should be much more than this, it needs to be a loving, community, where all can find acceptance and experience the transforming power of God's love.

Soup D said...

I think we need to be careful not to overthink the analogy too much and accept it for what it is: a snapshot view of someone on the outside. Unless we listen and thoughtfully review the comments, then are we not guilty of the same prejudice of which we would accuse the speaker?

The simple point made is that to those on the outside looking in, church is not an inviting place. They are not intrigued nor attracted enough to come and find out what those of us inside already know: that church is a place of warmth, friendship and support.

So the challenge is, how do we break that barrier? How do we become appealing to passers by, so that they will stop and look closer? And how do we do it without pandering to mere marketing strategies and gimmicks?

That which leads to relationship with God is (invariably) relationship with his people - but how do we connect with those who will not give us even a second glance?