I was asked about the 'Welsh Revival' this morning (by a member of one of those 'enthusiastic' churches as one of the local churchgoers so kindly puts it) and I had to stop and wonder why something that happened over one hundred years ago might be the main focus of a conversation. But before I had a chance to ask what they meant, they told me.
Seems some of those in town had taken themselves off to Cwmbran's Victory Church to 'enjoy what God is doing there!' and this was the revival they spoke of. This outpouring of God has been running for some sixty-plus days as each,and every day, people turn up at 7pm and stay until late praising God and seeing many apparently healed and many others giving their lives over to God - and that can't be bad can it?
I asked them what the teaching and theology was like and received a somewhat unsettling answer, 'You don't need theology and teaching when God turns up!'
Now I don't want to be a wet blanket; I'm sure there are many who have already taken upon themselves that role! BUT I do want to say that without theology (of the sound kind) the potential for error is immense and unless what is taught is Biblical then the potential for abuse of God's word and people being found to be led astray is great. The more that we see manifestations of God the more we need to welcome it with joy and also test what is before us. After all I've seen a great many 'waves' where God has been apparently evident and yet the fruit was neither lasting nor sound!
In the Bible, 1 John 4, tells us to 'test the spirit', that is to challenge that which appears, or is claimed to be, of or from God:
'Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.'
The same passage continues by telling us that what we have before us needs to have Jesus, the Christ, as central and Him acknowledged as both mediator and as God made flesh and if it doesn't, then it just ain't God! Test failed and you can be assured that it's error regardless of the music, the crowds and the manifestations!
Another test is that God will produce His spiritual fruits (Galatians 5) and that the hallmark of being authentic is 'love' - but let's read the passage for ourselves:
'For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbour as yourself.”
'I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
The acts of the flesh are obvious:
sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like.
I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.'
Since the conversation I've taken a quick look at the (many) videos and assessments of this 'outpouring' and I hope and pray that it is exactly what it looks like. This is my prayer and hope and I look to the wisdom of Gamaliel as he addressed those who wanted to deal with Peter and the other apostles for preaching Christ in the Temple courts (Acts 5):
'They were furious and wanted to put them to death. But a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law, who was honoured by all the people, stood up in the Sanhedrin and ordered that the men be put outside for a little while. Then he addressed the Sanhedrin:
“Men of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men. Some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing.
After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered.
Therefore, in the present case I advise you:
Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail.
But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.” '
Here are some wise words - for we must be careful not to curse that which is indeed God nor to bless (or endorse) that which obviously isn't. But that which is not of God will surely (in time perhaps) fall and so it is better to watch and pray rather than curse that of which we are unsure.
This is my position - I pray that whatever is happening in Cwmbran is indeed what it looks like and if so, say, 'Bring it on here Lord, the needs are great and the work of your hand is welcome where we are!'
I would also say that worship is great but the word tells us that signs and wonders follow the preaching of the word and it was by hearing of God's love as shown through Jesus, the cross and resurrection (the kerygma) that people came to faith - without sound teaching and theology all we have is ears tickled and a work that will neither bear fruit or last.
I would value any comments, experiences and the like on this - for I am encouraged and hopeful regarding it.
Pax
Showing posts with label Christian Healing. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Christian Healing. Show all posts
Wednesday, 12 June 2013
Sunday, 11 September 2011
Forgiveness and the believer
The theme of today's lectionary readings is that of ‘forgiveness’, something quite fitting when we bring to mind:
+ September the eleventh and the twin towers of the World Trade Centre,
+ Baha Mousa and the findings of the inquiry into his death,
+ Israel and Pakistan – Turkey and Egypt’s response to Israel’s acts against humanitarian aid ships and the killing of border guards,
+ Libya and the conflict that continues there,
+ Syria and the death of innocents
Plus a great many other issues and places. public and private, besides.
Look at the Genesis reading and realise how much time has passed since Joseph’s brothers sold him into slavery. Jacob, his father has died, time has passed, but is the act forgotten? Is there healing, for after all the lyrics of many songs tell us that ’time is a healer’.
The truth is that people can be filled with the same rancour and bitterness that was present the day an incident occurred as they are many years later. For forgiveness is something that we choose to engage in, it doesn’t just happen! It is an act of will.
Joseph chooses to engage in that healing in our Genesis reading.
But what makes it the right time to forgive? Our Matthew reading last week talked about reconciliation and this week’s continuation asks how many times we should be reconciled and forgive one another. Seventy times seven?
Forgiveness needs discipline and an enduring faith, as the story of the debtor, who needed his debts to be forgiven demonstrates all too well. We seek to have our trifling debts forgiven by our Father in heaven but cannot forgive those who have indebtedness towards us. We love because God first loved us – we forgive because ‘he who has been forgiven much forgives and loves much!’
Forgiveness sets the focus of that forgiveness free and sets us free too! Free from the bitterness that eats away our bones (as David the king tells us) and free to enjoy life without continually being wracked in anger and life-sapping bitterness.
Listening to the radio over the past couple of days I heard people on both sides of the World Trade Centre episode - some were radicalised, some grieved, others were conciliatory and others were eaten up with hatred. I couldn't see their faces but I knew from their voices that they were twisted and bitter and that something died within them as people died in another place.
I pray that God will bring them the healing that forgiveness brings.
Pax
Genesis 50.15-21; Psalm 103.[1-7]8-13*; Romans 14.1-12; Matthew 18.21-35
+ September the eleventh and the twin towers of the World Trade Centre,
+ Baha Mousa and the findings of the inquiry into his death,
+ Israel and Pakistan – Turkey and Egypt’s response to Israel’s acts against humanitarian aid ships and the killing of border guards,
+ Libya and the conflict that continues there,
+ Syria and the death of innocents
Plus a great many other issues and places. public and private, besides.
Look at the Genesis reading and realise how much time has passed since Joseph’s brothers sold him into slavery. Jacob, his father has died, time has passed, but is the act forgotten? Is there healing, for after all the lyrics of many songs tell us that ’time is a healer’.
The truth is that people can be filled with the same rancour and bitterness that was present the day an incident occurred as they are many years later. For forgiveness is something that we choose to engage in, it doesn’t just happen! It is an act of will.
Joseph chooses to engage in that healing in our Genesis reading.
But what makes it the right time to forgive? Our Matthew reading last week talked about reconciliation and this week’s continuation asks how many times we should be reconciled and forgive one another. Seventy times seven?
Forgiveness needs discipline and an enduring faith, as the story of the debtor, who needed his debts to be forgiven demonstrates all too well. We seek to have our trifling debts forgiven by our Father in heaven but cannot forgive those who have indebtedness towards us. We love because God first loved us – we forgive because ‘he who has been forgiven much forgives and loves much!’
Forgiveness sets the focus of that forgiveness free and sets us free too! Free from the bitterness that eats away our bones (as David the king tells us) and free to enjoy life without continually being wracked in anger and life-sapping bitterness.
Listening to the radio over the past couple of days I heard people on both sides of the World Trade Centre episode - some were radicalised, some grieved, others were conciliatory and others were eaten up with hatred. I couldn't see their faces but I knew from their voices that they were twisted and bitter and that something died within them as people died in another place.
I pray that God will bring them the healing that forgiveness brings.
Pax
Genesis 50.15-21; Psalm 103.[1-7]8-13*; Romans 14.1-12; Matthew 18.21-35
Monday, 4 July 2011
Healing -The Wimber legacy?
Thinking about healing, my mind was drawn back to the ministry and methodology of healing as outlined by John Wimber, the bloke who started Vineyard.
Interestingly, I first met John when David Pytches brought him to the basement of a church in London to have a meeting with various bishops and other senior Anglican types and sat enthralled as he spoke about his journey to faith, the shock he had when he turned up at church to find that they didn't do the stuff in the Bible (like healing) but just talked about it (is that where we are now?).
He spoke of his first attempts in the healing ministry following what he was certain God was calling him to do and seeing those he prayed for get worse and die! Then, after about three years he suddenly found that people were getting healed! Then came the bit that made me realise this bloke had something to pass on over and above the healing bit, for he told his audience (I was doing the PA/Sound by the way) that there was 'other stuff' and said that rather than explain he'd let God do it.
He started praying and as he did this wave of anointing swept the place and many of the bishops fell of their chairs, some were weeping, others were laughing and the place was in uproar. I'd never seen anything quite like it and I heard later that the bishops had (politely) told John that neither had they and it wasn't for the CofE! (sad or what?)
So the man came and went and the next time I heard of him he was doing stuff at St Andrew's, Chorleywood, teaching people about relationship with Christ and healing. At one of these, at what John called a 'healing 101' session, he was getting people to pray for healing with what he called the easy stuff - legs. He'd ask if anyone had one leg longer then the other and then get people to gather round any who had and pray for them to be the same length - and they were (I saw it on a number of occasions).
John would always ask the people to find out if they wanted a leg lengthened or shortened (make it longer and you need a new wardrobe, make it shorter and you can take the trousers up - funny, but also very practical).
Whenever I saw him he would be calling upon people to 'do what we saw the Father doing'! I was impressed by the fact that he taught people to have a methodology in the area of healing rather than just ask what was wrong and get stuck in with the praying. The process was simple: Ask what was wrong and find out the history of the person and a little of who they were, find out what they wanted and then pray (always asking permission beforehand), listening to God and praying accordingly for healing (or whatever). This was revolutionary for many who had been praying for healing for years in the Nike model of ministry ('Just do it).
What happened during those sessions was obviously physical (as well as mental, emotional and spiritual) healing and many people took part in the various training events. So where is healing in our churches now ('healing on the streets' included) and what are they seeing? Surely there must be some robust evidence out there somewhere?
Healing is more than just 'caring' (but of course 'healing' is part of 'caring' and vv) and, in my experiences has been real, tangible and robust - so why don't we (I) see it? Why don't we (I) go for it?
The whole issue of 'robust evidence' is now troubling me because to date I have heard of none coming back in support of the fact that God can, and does, heal. I can turn on my TV and see 'healing' from some of the circus performance Televangelists and watch the please for money to keep the ministry on the road, but froth apart, where is the substance? For me healing is not a spectator sport, we are all called to engage in it but in saying that, surely it is a proclamation of God's power, mights, grace and love for all to see the who He is.
Pax
Interestingly, I first met John when David Pytches brought him to the basement of a church in London to have a meeting with various bishops and other senior Anglican types and sat enthralled as he spoke about his journey to faith, the shock he had when he turned up at church to find that they didn't do the stuff in the Bible (like healing) but just talked about it (is that where we are now?).
He spoke of his first attempts in the healing ministry following what he was certain God was calling him to do and seeing those he prayed for get worse and die! Then, after about three years he suddenly found that people were getting healed! Then came the bit that made me realise this bloke had something to pass on over and above the healing bit, for he told his audience (I was doing the PA/Sound by the way) that there was 'other stuff' and said that rather than explain he'd let God do it.
He started praying and as he did this wave of anointing swept the place and many of the bishops fell of their chairs, some were weeping, others were laughing and the place was in uproar. I'd never seen anything quite like it and I heard later that the bishops had (politely) told John that neither had they and it wasn't for the CofE! (sad or what?)
So the man came and went and the next time I heard of him he was doing stuff at St Andrew's, Chorleywood, teaching people about relationship with Christ and healing. At one of these, at what John called a 'healing 101' session, he was getting people to pray for healing with what he called the easy stuff - legs. He'd ask if anyone had one leg longer then the other and then get people to gather round any who had and pray for them to be the same length - and they were (I saw it on a number of occasions).
John would always ask the people to find out if they wanted a leg lengthened or shortened (make it longer and you need a new wardrobe, make it shorter and you can take the trousers up - funny, but also very practical).
Whenever I saw him he would be calling upon people to 'do what we saw the Father doing'! I was impressed by the fact that he taught people to have a methodology in the area of healing rather than just ask what was wrong and get stuck in with the praying. The process was simple: Ask what was wrong and find out the history of the person and a little of who they were, find out what they wanted and then pray (always asking permission beforehand), listening to God and praying accordingly for healing (or whatever). This was revolutionary for many who had been praying for healing for years in the Nike model of ministry ('Just do it).
What happened during those sessions was obviously physical (as well as mental, emotional and spiritual) healing and many people took part in the various training events. So where is healing in our churches now ('healing on the streets' included) and what are they seeing? Surely there must be some robust evidence out there somewhere?
Healing is more than just 'caring' (but of course 'healing' is part of 'caring' and vv) and, in my experiences has been real, tangible and robust - so why don't we (I) see it? Why don't we (I) go for it?
The whole issue of 'robust evidence' is now troubling me because to date I have heard of none coming back in support of the fact that God can, and does, heal. I can turn on my TV and see 'healing' from some of the circus performance Televangelists and watch the please for money to keep the ministry on the road, but froth apart, where is the substance? For me healing is not a spectator sport, we are all called to engage in it but in saying that, surely it is a proclamation of God's power, mights, grace and love for all to see the who He is.
Pax
Saturday, 2 July 2011
Healing - Fact or fiction 3
Another Kenyan escapade, this time in Nyahururu.
When I was there the place was full of stories of a man who terrorised the town. He ran about in a wild sort of terror by day and by night he would sleep under some corrugated iron sheeting (until the kids came in the morning and threw stones and rocks onto the sheeting to wake him up. Think I'd be mad too if that was me!).
Anyway, one day there was a very strong sense that God was saying that the man had a spirit of amnesia and that we needed to grab him and pray for his healing. So off some of the Christians went and grabbed him and brought him back. When they did he was in a most awful state, he was covered in dirt and his matted hair had things living in it and he was like a wild animal (reminded me of the time a feral cat came in to the house and ran amok ripping things and peeing everywhere - just bigger!).
Beginning to pray for the man resulted in his dropping to the floor, motionless, and me thinking, "Whoops, think we've killed him!". There was a smashing anointing knocking around and a few minutes after the praying finished the bloke suddenly sits up and asks (in Swahili) where he is. When he's told (Nyahururu) he explains that he is a butcher and had come to buy some meat when he was attacked. The panga scars on his chest and the fact that his pick up and money had gone all supported the story and when he realised he'd been in the place for a fair time it all got a bit interesting.
We took him off and stripped his clothes off him and he was hosed down and shaved from head to foot (the local barber, not me thank goodness). He was then given new clothes and was taken back to his home where the family and neighbours went absolutely bonkers (whilst he was overjoyed but sane). They thought he'd either gone off or been killed and had given up hope of seeing him again.
I heard a few years later that there were churches formed through this event and that it had been a pivotal moment in the Christian life of the area.
The more I think of what I have seen and been involved in, the more I begin to wonder why I have let healing slip as much as I have.
And then of course there is John Wimber . . . .
Mungu Akubariki
When I was there the place was full of stories of a man who terrorised the town. He ran about in a wild sort of terror by day and by night he would sleep under some corrugated iron sheeting (until the kids came in the morning and threw stones and rocks onto the sheeting to wake him up. Think I'd be mad too if that was me!).
Anyway, one day there was a very strong sense that God was saying that the man had a spirit of amnesia and that we needed to grab him and pray for his healing. So off some of the Christians went and grabbed him and brought him back. When they did he was in a most awful state, he was covered in dirt and his matted hair had things living in it and he was like a wild animal (reminded me of the time a feral cat came in to the house and ran amok ripping things and peeing everywhere - just bigger!).
Beginning to pray for the man resulted in his dropping to the floor, motionless, and me thinking, "Whoops, think we've killed him!". There was a smashing anointing knocking around and a few minutes after the praying finished the bloke suddenly sits up and asks (in Swahili) where he is. When he's told (Nyahururu) he explains that he is a butcher and had come to buy some meat when he was attacked. The panga scars on his chest and the fact that his pick up and money had gone all supported the story and when he realised he'd been in the place for a fair time it all got a bit interesting.
We took him off and stripped his clothes off him and he was hosed down and shaved from head to foot (the local barber, not me thank goodness). He was then given new clothes and was taken back to his home where the family and neighbours went absolutely bonkers (whilst he was overjoyed but sane). They thought he'd either gone off or been killed and had given up hope of seeing him again.
I heard a few years later that there were churches formed through this event and that it had been a pivotal moment in the Christian life of the area.
The more I think of what I have seen and been involved in, the more I begin to wonder why I have let healing slip as much as I have.
And then of course there is John Wimber . . . .
Mungu Akubariki
Healing - Fact or fiction 2
Up in the Rift Valley, Kenya, we'd been engaged in some rural evangelism and after the preaching it was announced that we'd be praying for those who were sick. I was grabbed (literally) and taken to a woman who wanted prayer for healing. "what is wrong with her?" I asked. The response was that she was blind!
I have to be honest and say that I wanted to get out of there. I believed God 'could' heal but that hadn't generally been my experience. I would have been O.K. with a headache or something a bit abstract and lightweight, but blind was a bit over the top!
It was obvious that I wasn't going to get out of it (I remember thinking I'd try and see if I could slip off to get my Bible!) and so I stuck out a hand and prayed two of my favourite prayers, 'oh God' and 'help'. I could feel something was happening as I prayed for those blind eyes to see (heat, tingling electric sort of stuff and the like).
When the feeling sort of stopped I asked the woman (through a translator) how she felt. After a brief conversation the people clapped and cheered and the translator said, "She can see."
To be honest here, my first thoughts were that she could see all along (always the cynic me!) and that what we really had was an error in initial translation which meant that 'she can see' was the starting state as well!
Someone came into the crush and after a quick chat it transpired that there was a lot of blindness in the region (something about volcanic ash was Mentioned) and that she had been blind for some time and now wasn't!
Relieved, shell-shocked and I don't know what I felt, it was all a bit heady, confusing and disorientating, I believed in healing but this was up close and personal in a really big way! I turned, only to find another candidate for prayer and of course she was also blind! Repeat prayers (blind eye see had been added after my favourite two prayers, so I continued with that) and end up with the same response and result (except I was more expectant/believing/less surprised perhaps).
Again the people were buzzing and up came a third person, obviously blind (White eyes are a give away aren't they?) but still I asked and prayed and opened my eyes to look into two brown eyes without a hint of white to be seen anywhere! I didn't bother to ask, but someone else did and the praised God (of course).
After that I managed to get back to the matatu (the bus I was driving) and once inside, my wheels fell off. If God could do what He'd just done using me then I'd got Him very wrong indeed! I understood the 'get away from me God, I'm a sinful man' bit and realised something if His immensity in one experience.
The sad bit was that later, back in the UK, I struggled to understand how we could see what we did (for there was much more) in Africa and yet fail to see the same thing on our shores. We were the same people and God was the same God so what was it? Faith, expectation, mindset (we know so much and see so little whilst they knew God but were less 'sophisticated').
what was it in us that meant we didn't see what we had seen elsewhere and even though my expectations were high, for healing was now a reality not just something I believed yet didn't expect to see in some sort of dispensationalist or rational way, it wasn't the same!
I still don't understand and to be honest, over the intervening years I have stopped asking (but now I'm going to have to start again :( ), but my experience tells me that God does heal even though my 'now' sort of denies it. Chronos and kairos? Just a lucky night? Can't have been for there were so many people and so many nights in so many different places.
Bottom line - healing sure isn't fiction and surely there must be some of the robustness in the evidence out there?
Pax
ps. my scientific and engineering background always calls for empirical proof. That night I got what I hadn't sought and realised that what I'd never thought about in any real way was something that I should expect and was real. Care on the streets - nope, should be healing on the streets, now I have to understand how and why. Also healing is not the gift in the box but it is a gift.
God is not an equation: Sickness + prayer + God = whatsoever God fancies it being.
We cannot manipulate Him by transposition nor apply Him as a constant, and yet he is not hypothesis either. He is a variably constant constant - hallelujah!
I have to be honest and say that I wanted to get out of there. I believed God 'could' heal but that hadn't generally been my experience. I would have been O.K. with a headache or something a bit abstract and lightweight, but blind was a bit over the top!
It was obvious that I wasn't going to get out of it (I remember thinking I'd try and see if I could slip off to get my Bible!) and so I stuck out a hand and prayed two of my favourite prayers, 'oh God' and 'help'. I could feel something was happening as I prayed for those blind eyes to see (heat, tingling electric sort of stuff and the like).
When the feeling sort of stopped I asked the woman (through a translator) how she felt. After a brief conversation the people clapped and cheered and the translator said, "She can see."
To be honest here, my first thoughts were that she could see all along (always the cynic me!) and that what we really had was an error in initial translation which meant that 'she can see' was the starting state as well!
Someone came into the crush and after a quick chat it transpired that there was a lot of blindness in the region (something about volcanic ash was Mentioned) and that she had been blind for some time and now wasn't!
Relieved, shell-shocked and I don't know what I felt, it was all a bit heady, confusing and disorientating, I believed in healing but this was up close and personal in a really big way! I turned, only to find another candidate for prayer and of course she was also blind! Repeat prayers (blind eye see had been added after my favourite two prayers, so I continued with that) and end up with the same response and result (except I was more expectant/believing/less surprised perhaps).
Again the people were buzzing and up came a third person, obviously blind (White eyes are a give away aren't they?) but still I asked and prayed and opened my eyes to look into two brown eyes without a hint of white to be seen anywhere! I didn't bother to ask, but someone else did and the praised God (of course).
After that I managed to get back to the matatu (the bus I was driving) and once inside, my wheels fell off. If God could do what He'd just done using me then I'd got Him very wrong indeed! I understood the 'get away from me God, I'm a sinful man' bit and realised something if His immensity in one experience.
The sad bit was that later, back in the UK, I struggled to understand how we could see what we did (for there was much more) in Africa and yet fail to see the same thing on our shores. We were the same people and God was the same God so what was it? Faith, expectation, mindset (we know so much and see so little whilst they knew God but were less 'sophisticated').
what was it in us that meant we didn't see what we had seen elsewhere and even though my expectations were high, for healing was now a reality not just something I believed yet didn't expect to see in some sort of dispensationalist or rational way, it wasn't the same!
I still don't understand and to be honest, over the intervening years I have stopped asking (but now I'm going to have to start again :( ), but my experience tells me that God does heal even though my 'now' sort of denies it. Chronos and kairos? Just a lucky night? Can't have been for there were so many people and so many nights in so many different places.
Bottom line - healing sure isn't fiction and surely there must be some of the robustness in the evidence out there?
Pax
ps. my scientific and engineering background always calls for empirical proof. That night I got what I hadn't sought and realised that what I'd never thought about in any real way was something that I should expect and was real. Care on the streets - nope, should be healing on the streets, now I have to understand how and why. Also healing is not the gift in the box but it is a gift.
God is not an equation: Sickness + prayer + God = whatsoever God fancies it being.
We cannot manipulate Him by transposition nor apply Him as a constant, and yet he is not hypothesis either. He is a variably constant constant - hallelujah!
Friday, 1 July 2011
Healing - fact or fiction?
I can't believe it's actually something like twenty years ago that a reporter from a Sunday broadsheet came to spend a Sunday with the church I was working in. His task was to be present at all the services and write an account of what he saw.
At the evening service we were visited by a wonderful chap who had cone to lead a 'healing service'. During the evening he preached and then called out people who needed healing. The reporter came closer to the platform and his photographer snapped away whilt the preacher prayed for the sick. Up came a blind bloke (only person who sticks in my mind now) and he was asked if there was anything happening. He was told there was a sort of flashing lights going on, and so the chap prayed again and this time the response was that he thought he saw light. Again the chap prayed and by now the photographer was feet away. Upon being asked what was happening the blind person said they could see what looked like a funny face - turned out to be the photographer!
The man was able to read text before the service ended and yet the paper never carried that in their account of a Sunday with us!
Perhaps there was a different agenda?
Pax
At the evening service we were visited by a wonderful chap who had cone to lead a 'healing service'. During the evening he preached and then called out people who needed healing. The reporter came closer to the platform and his photographer snapped away whilt the preacher prayed for the sick. Up came a blind bloke (only person who sticks in my mind now) and he was asked if there was anything happening. He was told there was a sort of flashing lights going on, and so the chap prayed again and this time the response was that he thought he saw light. Again the chap prayed and by now the photographer was feet away. Upon being asked what was happening the blind person said they could see what looked like a funny face - turned out to be the photographer!
The man was able to read text before the service ended and yet the paper never carried that in their account of a Sunday with us!
Perhaps there was a different agenda?
Pax
Thursday, 30 June 2011
Healing and cereals
You probably wouldn't be surprised to hear that I am often asked why someone died, especially young, when they were 'such a good Christian'. This is usually suffixed with the question 'why did they die', the answer to which is that they died because they were human and that's what humans do, they die.
A surgeon friend once came and spoke to a group of schoolchildren for me regarding life and death, healing, pain and suffering. This group of sixth-formers were more than a little taken aback when the surgeon explained that life was a terminal condition and that even the oxygen we think we breath was actually (in the right, or should that be wrong, proportions) actually a killer.
I am not sure why, but people seem to expect that because they are 'Christian' this means that they won't (or shouldn't) die young or suffer from nasty illnesses. If this was the case then just about everyone I know would sign up and become Christian today. The problem is of course that this would make Christianity like some of the breakfast cereals when I was a child. Let me explain (yep, you'd better for we are sorely confused now Vic you Muppet I hear you shout):
As a child, I really loved Sugar Puffs but one of the other brands, which I wasn't that keen on, started putting a plastic toy in the box (beat my Nan's plastic roses from the washing powder anyway!) and so I pestered my Mum to start buying me that brand. I ate them, not enjoying the product and put up with the flavour and the texture and everything, because I wanted to collect the toys. Eventually I got fed up with them and returned to my Sugar Puffs.
The problem is, that if being a Christian meant that we wouldn't die young or have nasty illnesses and the like, then many would come for the toy rather than because they believed. If I were God I'd have a clause which says 'merely coming for the fringe benefits without the benefit of belief negates the benefits' (see why I'm not God?).
The other problem is that we seem to think that if we pray then God has to answer it and do what we prayed for. This isn't prayer but the issuing of an instruction and God (could be a woman after all) doesn't take being told what to do very well at all! The Bible tells us that God knows our needs before we do and my take on this is that God also knows when our 'needs' are 'wants' and vv and actually does respond.
I am naive, because I do expect to see healing (physical, mental, emotional, spiritual) and do wonder why I have seen more whilst working in other places than I have here.
Remind me to mention a healing service, a Sunday newspaper and a saint called George Canty.
Gotto go - full dance card and only halfway through.
Pax
A surgeon friend once came and spoke to a group of schoolchildren for me regarding life and death, healing, pain and suffering. This group of sixth-formers were more than a little taken aback when the surgeon explained that life was a terminal condition and that even the oxygen we think we breath was actually (in the right, or should that be wrong, proportions) actually a killer.
I am not sure why, but people seem to expect that because they are 'Christian' this means that they won't (or shouldn't) die young or suffer from nasty illnesses. If this was the case then just about everyone I know would sign up and become Christian today. The problem is of course that this would make Christianity like some of the breakfast cereals when I was a child. Let me explain (yep, you'd better for we are sorely confused now Vic you Muppet I hear you shout):
As a child, I really loved Sugar Puffs but one of the other brands, which I wasn't that keen on, started putting a plastic toy in the box (beat my Nan's plastic roses from the washing powder anyway!) and so I pestered my Mum to start buying me that brand. I ate them, not enjoying the product and put up with the flavour and the texture and everything, because I wanted to collect the toys. Eventually I got fed up with them and returned to my Sugar Puffs.
The problem is, that if being a Christian meant that we wouldn't die young or have nasty illnesses and the like, then many would come for the toy rather than because they believed. If I were God I'd have a clause which says 'merely coming for the fringe benefits without the benefit of belief negates the benefits' (see why I'm not God?).
The other problem is that we seem to think that if we pray then God has to answer it and do what we prayed for. This isn't prayer but the issuing of an instruction and God (could be a woman after all) doesn't take being told what to do very well at all! The Bible tells us that God knows our needs before we do and my take on this is that God also knows when our 'needs' are 'wants' and vv and actually does respond.
I am naive, because I do expect to see healing (physical, mental, emotional, spiritual) and do wonder why I have seen more whilst working in other places than I have here.
Remind me to mention a healing service, a Sunday newspaper and a saint called George Canty.
Gotto go - full dance card and only halfway through.
Pax
Healing and Theodicy
The more I have discussed this, and believe me I have asked many church people what they think about healing in the past twenty-four hours, the more parallels I see between healing and theodicy.
When theodicy was the focus of our Sunday evening 'Thinking Theologically' services many of those who came were a bit twitchy because they'd heard the word before. But theodicy is merely a reasoned argument that examines and seeks to understand and perhaps justify (a legal term meaning ‘to prove or find ‘innocent’ of the charge) God in relation to suffering and evil. The word itself comes from the Greek for God ‘theos’ and justice ‘diké’. So, we’re looking at a Just God and the justice He brings, gives or maintains.
Let’s consider a few examples from the NT, starting with Lk 13: 1 – 5 and the tower of Siloam:
“There were some present at that very time who told him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And he answered them, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered in this way? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”
Often people will equate illness, disaster and the like with sin (confessed and unconfessed) as we can see with the man ‘born blind’ in Jn 9:1 -2: “As Jesus passed by, He saw a man blind from birth and His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?” (Sin and illness - now there's an area for consideration - used to be a common theme when I was a Pente' Pastor)
The questions of God and justice, and His intervention (or absence) are recurring themes for Biblical and other writings and for life since it began (I assume) and brings forth some interesting and challenging debate. One of those who were so engaged was a chap called Epicurus (341-270 BC) who proposed the contraction:
“Is God willing to prevent evil but not able? Then he is impotent. Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then he is evil.”
Epicurus extrapolated that if God is all-powerful and absolutely good then evil cannot exist, but if evil does exist than there cannot be an all-powerful and absolutely good God. This is extrapolated in the following ‘logical problem of evil’:
1. God exists.
2. God exists and is omnipotent (absolutely powerful), omniscient (infinitely wise or all-knowing) and is to be considered ‘perfectly good.
3. A ‘perfectly good’ being would desire to prevent all and every evil.
4. An omniscient being would know every way in which evil might exist or come into existence.
5. An omnipotent being, knowing every way in which evil might exist or come into existence would, being omnipotent, prevent that, or any evil, from existing.
6. A being who knows every way evil can come about and has the power to do so must be able to prevent that evil from existing if they so wish.
7. If an omnipotent, omniscient and perfectly good being exists, then evil cannot exist.
8. Evil exists.
Rather than resort to theodicy, a nice man by the name of Alvin Platinga came up with his ‘defence’, which goes like this:
A world containing ‘significantly free’ people is more valuable, everything else being equal, to a world with no free creatures at all. God can create free creatures, but He can't ‘cause, determine or make them do right’. If He does then they are not ‘significantly free’ after all because they do not do what is right ‘freely’.
Therefore, to create creatures capable of moral good, He must create creatures capable of moral evil. If he give creatures freedom to perform evil then he cannot prevent them from doing so.
Plantinga argues that even though God is omnipotent, it is possible that it was not in his power to create a world containing moral good but no moral evil – this would be a logical and moral possibility.
So the question before us is this: Is God impotent, malevolent, evil, spiteful and the like (select those you think apply) OR are there grounds to assume (and prove) that God is, as His billing would have it, a ‘good (and healing)' God? for surely healing is a sign of his goodness, care, compassion and might?
Pax
When theodicy was the focus of our Sunday evening 'Thinking Theologically' services many of those who came were a bit twitchy because they'd heard the word before. But theodicy is merely a reasoned argument that examines and seeks to understand and perhaps justify (a legal term meaning ‘to prove or find ‘innocent’ of the charge) God in relation to suffering and evil. The word itself comes from the Greek for God ‘theos’ and justice ‘diké’. So, we’re looking at a Just God and the justice He brings, gives or maintains.
Let’s consider a few examples from the NT, starting with Lk 13: 1 – 5 and the tower of Siloam:
“There were some present at that very time who told him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And he answered them, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered in this way? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”
Often people will equate illness, disaster and the like with sin (confessed and unconfessed) as we can see with the man ‘born blind’ in Jn 9:1 -2: “As Jesus passed by, He saw a man blind from birth and His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?” (Sin and illness - now there's an area for consideration - used to be a common theme when I was a Pente' Pastor)
The questions of God and justice, and His intervention (or absence) are recurring themes for Biblical and other writings and for life since it began (I assume) and brings forth some interesting and challenging debate. One of those who were so engaged was a chap called Epicurus (341-270 BC) who proposed the contraction:
“Is God willing to prevent evil but not able? Then he is impotent. Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then he is evil.”
Epicurus extrapolated that if God is all-powerful and absolutely good then evil cannot exist, but if evil does exist than there cannot be an all-powerful and absolutely good God. This is extrapolated in the following ‘logical problem of evil’:
1. God exists.
2. God exists and is omnipotent (absolutely powerful), omniscient (infinitely wise or all-knowing) and is to be considered ‘perfectly good.
3. A ‘perfectly good’ being would desire to prevent all and every evil.
4. An omniscient being would know every way in which evil might exist or come into existence.
5. An omnipotent being, knowing every way in which evil might exist or come into existence would, being omnipotent, prevent that, or any evil, from existing.
6. A being who knows every way evil can come about and has the power to do so must be able to prevent that evil from existing if they so wish.
7. If an omnipotent, omniscient and perfectly good being exists, then evil cannot exist.
8. Evil exists.
Rather than resort to theodicy, a nice man by the name of Alvin Platinga came up with his ‘defence’, which goes like this:
A world containing ‘significantly free’ people is more valuable, everything else being equal, to a world with no free creatures at all. God can create free creatures, but He can't ‘cause, determine or make them do right’. If He does then they are not ‘significantly free’ after all because they do not do what is right ‘freely’.
Therefore, to create creatures capable of moral good, He must create creatures capable of moral evil. If he give creatures freedom to perform evil then he cannot prevent them from doing so.
Plantinga argues that even though God is omnipotent, it is possible that it was not in his power to create a world containing moral good but no moral evil – this would be a logical and moral possibility.
So the question before us is this: Is God impotent, malevolent, evil, spiteful and the like (select those you think apply) OR are there grounds to assume (and prove) that God is, as His billing would have it, a ‘good (and healing)' God? for surely healing is a sign of his goodness, care, compassion and might?
Pax
Wednesday, 29 June 2011
The 'does God heal?' conundrum
Following on from this morning's post, the issue of healing appeared on the radar in to form of a conversation with an extremely experienced nursing type (been a midwife tutor and worked in a mil' setting for much of their career) regarding God and healing. Their view was (and always had been) that God healed through the skills and expertise of the medical types and not by any divine act.
This raised a whole raft of issues for me, namely (in a nutshell):
i. If God can heal but doesn't, does this make God wicked, uncaring or just plain mean?
ii. If God can't heal, then surely this means He isn't God, for everything should be possible for the Absolute God.
(Note the parallels here with the issue of evil - does it work if we substitute evil and suffering for healing?))
But what about times when God does heal, physically, when, how, who and where and why did it happen?
I struggle because I have prayed for (me, not a story from another person) physically blind people (yes, more than one) and they saw. Before I prayed for them, they didn't. Simple in an extremely complex and unsettling way. (I'll give an account of this later)
I struggle because having prayed for a man regarded as a 'demoniac' and seeing him stripped naked, shaved, hosed down and returned to his family who had long back assumed he was dead, I know the power of God's healing (again, I'll tell the story some time soon).
So why did God heal them (and many others) from discernable medical conditions and yet not heal others? I prayed for a child with cerebral malaria and buried her the next day and less than three days later prayed with, and for, another and never realised that I'd passed her playing outside the house when I returned the next day. Both had the same illness and yet one lived and the other died. "All the days numbered," had been reached for one and yet still ran for the other.
So here we are. The ASA want 'robust proof' and many will offer up headaches and inner peace as examples of this (which indeed are evidence of healing). But what of the robustness of dead raised, deaf hearing and the lame dancing? Is seeking evidence 'putting God to the test' or is it merely satisfying the need for empirical evidence and right (after all, we are told to 'test' aren't we?). Are we too content to praise God for what isn't there or are we too lightweight to shout about what is and take on the skeptics?
One of the most important roles I have as a dog-collar is that of helping people to die well. I start working with people on this as soon as they become Christians, for we only get one go at dying and there are no resits - but what of healing before death comes a knocking?
Pax
This raised a whole raft of issues for me, namely (in a nutshell):
i. If God can heal but doesn't, does this make God wicked, uncaring or just plain mean?
ii. If God can't heal, then surely this means He isn't God, for everything should be possible for the Absolute God.
(Note the parallels here with the issue of evil - does it work if we substitute evil and suffering for healing?))
But what about times when God does heal, physically, when, how, who and where and why did it happen?
I struggle because I have prayed for (me, not a story from another person) physically blind people (yes, more than one) and they saw. Before I prayed for them, they didn't. Simple in an extremely complex and unsettling way. (I'll give an account of this later)
I struggle because having prayed for a man regarded as a 'demoniac' and seeing him stripped naked, shaved, hosed down and returned to his family who had long back assumed he was dead, I know the power of God's healing (again, I'll tell the story some time soon).
So why did God heal them (and many others) from discernable medical conditions and yet not heal others? I prayed for a child with cerebral malaria and buried her the next day and less than three days later prayed with, and for, another and never realised that I'd passed her playing outside the house when I returned the next day. Both had the same illness and yet one lived and the other died. "All the days numbered," had been reached for one and yet still ran for the other.
So here we are. The ASA want 'robust proof' and many will offer up headaches and inner peace as examples of this (which indeed are evidence of healing). But what of the robustness of dead raised, deaf hearing and the lame dancing? Is seeking evidence 'putting God to the test' or is it merely satisfying the need for empirical evidence and right (after all, we are told to 'test' aren't we?). Are we too content to praise God for what isn't there or are we too lightweight to shout about what is and take on the skeptics?
One of the most important roles I have as a dog-collar is that of helping people to die well. I start working with people on this as soon as they become Christians, for we only get one go at dying and there are no resits - but what of healing before death comes a knocking?
Pax
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