I'm beginning to think that people of no faith might have the monopoly on 'doing spiteful - or intolerant' as all too often I find them displaying something that denies anything of an open-mind and indicates anything but rational thinking has been taking place.
It's been an interesting few days as I have listened to radio broadcasts explaining how 'delusional' Christians force children into acts of worship. I have heard supposedly sane people explain how there is no difference to be found between the fundamentalists acting across Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan and Christians. There have been people almost frothing at the mouth as they peddled something bordering on hate crimes and put on display their sad Christophobic utterances.
I have to be honest here and say that were any of those with whom I 'do church' to speak as many of the self-appointed, draw your own line and approve it by your own thinking and self-approved standards, folk I have been hearing of late then I would be encouraging them to think again.
The problem is that the majority of those I have heard on the radio (or read in print) seem to have many views and very little thinking at all and I'm beginning to think that rather than the old humanist/non-theistic chestnut which claims that being Christian requires us to leave our brains at the door, this now needs to be revised with the words 'humanists' replacing the word Christian:
I am so very sad at the stuff I have heard. "Perphaps," I think to myself, "They are the secular equivalent of the Westboro Baptist Church rather than displaying humanistic mainstream thinking (but I fear not!)". The labels so many ascribe and the pure venom and spitefulness they exude: Is it any wonder that as the world adopts a more secular approach it also become a lesser place than it was in terms of justice (for all I hear these days is 'settling scores' and 'revenge') morality (for 'self' is now an acceptable focus to have) and family (let's not go there!).
I am one who believes in tolerance and yet my tolerance is apparently met by people who wish to attack and abuse and destroy as an outworking of their intolerance. If I were to try and convert people to a theist approach to life with the same vigour, venom and irrational dialogue as that demonstrated in the words and writings of some of these 'free-thinking' then 'non-theists' I'd (quite rightly) be labelled a bigot and mindless fanatic and eschewed by the majority. Cloak it in humanism or focus upon those who you consider to be nnnnnnn (choose your own cause: homophobic, racist, mysogny, misandry, etc.) and you'll soon have the morons our with their tumbrels and scythes screaming for blood. Mob rule and unthinking madness seem to be the order of the day!
I have absolutes and values and standards and these, even when I'd wish to change them, stand fir,: They guide my engagement with others around me. Others around me wish to live in a world of pseudo-scientific bunkum (odd that, isn't that what some of those claim Christians do as we supposedly oppose science?) where they worship technology and science that all too often they don't understand. They see man as the key to successful and fulfilled living but take any good idea (and I don't mean anything religious - though such a stance would fit) and watch how man will change it to meet his own ends.
Look at all the wars that the sheep will claim were all caused by 'religion' (man's ultimate rebellion against God) and see how many were caused by non-theistic people and their thinking.
Look at the regimes and oppressions, the greed, the corporations and tell me: Are they theistic or humanist in their attunes, values and ambitions?
I don't attack humanists, I engage with them (often agreeing at much of their thinking - if thinkers they be) and I pray for them and I respect their desire to be as they are (all too often being basically self-serving and closed minded) and refrain from ad hominem, finger-pointing, bitter recriminations and name-calling. What a shame these 'open-minded' folk can't have the grace to do the same.
Showing posts with label non-theist. Show all posts
Showing posts with label non-theist. Show all posts
Tuesday, 8 December 2015
Tuesday, 8 April 2014
Blue Sky Thinking - Answers
Now here's one for theist and non-theist alike - for in both camps I find people who are so assured of why they should (and, sadly, why others shouldn't) because they have failed to engage with this 'first rule' thinking:
Tuesday, 31 December 2013
The Fallacies and Faith of the 'faithful AND faithless'
I have recently been amazed to find the often proclaimed 'arrogance of Christians' residing more aggressively and entrenched in those who claim to have no faith.
Time and time again I find people of faith reading books from those who oppose their belief on the grounds of reason, rational thinking and logic and yet rarely do I find the opposite taking place.
Time and time again I find those who claim that reason, research and evidence form the basis of their thinking and attitudes rarely exercise reason, never do research (unless this is the revised usage of what I call reading newspapers) and accept the flimsiest of evidence (anecdotal and unsubstantiated is always of course acceptable if it's not faith for some).
The reality is that there are those from both camps who dialogue, read, think and continue to engage in research. When I became a Christian I was challenged to collect a brain at the door rather than leave it as those of no faith often accuse. My faith demands that I continue to study and to challenge the Bible and the settings - I acknowledge consistencies and similarities with some of the Biblical narratives and other writings; I accept the psychological imperatives and definitions of faith and can agree that religion does indeed provide someone to thank when it goes well, plead with when it's going wrong and appease when 'under a curse'. That said I also acknowledge the empirical evidence before me and test it with eyes that seek explanation in both science and faith. I look at the stuff I can understand and seek to find answers to that which I cannot - acknowledging the intelligence of those 'ancients' and trying to see what their cultures might have added to the mix too!
Would that those on the other side of the divide did the same.
Recently I encountered two sides of the same 'ignorance' coin on the same day in the one episode - I find myself returning to the people and their comments and, on each replay, find myself more frustrated and (to be honest) just a little angry with them each time - Let me explain:
The Christian
This person was firmly stuck in a position whereby their faith was something fixed and what they believe was totally dug in and fixed. They 'knew what they believed' and they were not going to be shaken from it. The problem was that what was on view was an immature faith in a long-term believer and this was all due to the place they worshipped in. You probably know the type of place - great sermons on a dozen passages, a Bible with about twelve books and a faith that move mountains and a reality that made its members walk around them!
They were rigid in their belief and vehement in their rejection of 'God haters' - the primacy of the Word they neither knew or understood was central - and yet they could neither defend it or show themselves to be able workers for it. 'In the name of the Lord' is a great way to travel - but the words need to be fleshed out and take upon themselves the incarnacy that God's Word did!
There was no willingness to debate - just to shout people down and assumed to work on the basis that by repeating trite little Christian mantras and closed statements that others would 'be saved'.
The Atheist
Were keen to tell me how open-minded they were and yet even had it been open (and believe me it wasn't) there was so little of it (a mind) that chewing gum and walking would have cause a core failure!
As the conversation progressed I realised that they kept using the word evidence and yet when prodded and probed it was obvious that their evidence was gleaned from the laboratory that is the pub, newspaper and that oft quoted source: The Friend. They (mis)quoted from their prophets and gurus and (in the name of balance I'm sure) also misquoted Bible and other 'religious' stuff too. They appealed to reason but there was little of it. Pointed to facts, but they were misquotes and error-filled utterances. They spoke of research and yet had never really even read the basic books of either faith (for theist and non-theist are but two opposing faiths - God or Science, free or under authority, self-pleasing or God-pleasing - divide it as you will).
What was sad in these encounters was that both adversaries worked from a position of entrenched ignorance. There was no research into what they or those with whom they disagreed believed (or didn't) and thought. There was no ability (or apparently willingness) to engage in dialogue and find out what the other side believed - just a reliance on the belief that merely opposing, and writing off, the other side was enough.
What was really sad was that neither of the people had even the basic tools to be able to defend their own beliefs and this, in my book (and God's too) is probably the most sad part of the whole.
The way forward (for theists and non-theists):
Please remember that faith engaged in without involving your brain is useless and hollow religion - it is the stuff that ignorance grows in to choke everything that God (or not god) would have us celebrate and renders us an impotent and limited, superstitious and empty people.
So read the books that form the basis of your belief (And where this is the real Bible - read ALL of it, there's 66 books you know!)
Read books about the things you think challenge our faith and find out for yourself.
Read books by people you might think oppose your faith (and people) and dialogue with them, then
Dialogue with people who believe what you believe and check your understanding (and theirs) and, that done, engage in dialogue with people you think you don't disagree with.
Remember that no one group has the monopoly on being good, acting wrongly, being stupid, having closed minds, bias, ignorance, stupidity, blind faith, selfishness, exclusivity and best of all - being just plain ugly people!
How can we say we love God when we hate the image of Him made visible in the person before us?
I scribbled this over a period of weeks - revisiting and rethinking about how what I'd encountered informed and challenged my own position and attitudes. I think that this might be the right time, as we reach the end of 2013, to post it.
Time and time again I find people of faith reading books from those who oppose their belief on the grounds of reason, rational thinking and logic and yet rarely do I find the opposite taking place.
Time and time again I find those who claim that reason, research and evidence form the basis of their thinking and attitudes rarely exercise reason, never do research (unless this is the revised usage of what I call reading newspapers) and accept the flimsiest of evidence (anecdotal and unsubstantiated is always of course acceptable if it's not faith for some).
The reality is that there are those from both camps who dialogue, read, think and continue to engage in research. When I became a Christian I was challenged to collect a brain at the door rather than leave it as those of no faith often accuse. My faith demands that I continue to study and to challenge the Bible and the settings - I acknowledge consistencies and similarities with some of the Biblical narratives and other writings; I accept the psychological imperatives and definitions of faith and can agree that religion does indeed provide someone to thank when it goes well, plead with when it's going wrong and appease when 'under a curse'. That said I also acknowledge the empirical evidence before me and test it with eyes that seek explanation in both science and faith. I look at the stuff I can understand and seek to find answers to that which I cannot - acknowledging the intelligence of those 'ancients' and trying to see what their cultures might have added to the mix too!
Would that those on the other side of the divide did the same.
Recently I encountered two sides of the same 'ignorance' coin on the same day in the one episode - I find myself returning to the people and their comments and, on each replay, find myself more frustrated and (to be honest) just a little angry with them each time - Let me explain:
The Christian
This person was firmly stuck in a position whereby their faith was something fixed and what they believe was totally dug in and fixed. They 'knew what they believed' and they were not going to be shaken from it. The problem was that what was on view was an immature faith in a long-term believer and this was all due to the place they worshipped in. You probably know the type of place - great sermons on a dozen passages, a Bible with about twelve books and a faith that move mountains and a reality that made its members walk around them!
They were rigid in their belief and vehement in their rejection of 'God haters' - the primacy of the Word they neither knew or understood was central - and yet they could neither defend it or show themselves to be able workers for it. 'In the name of the Lord' is a great way to travel - but the words need to be fleshed out and take upon themselves the incarnacy that God's Word did!
There was no willingness to debate - just to shout people down and assumed to work on the basis that by repeating trite little Christian mantras and closed statements that others would 'be saved'.
The Atheist
Were keen to tell me how open-minded they were and yet even had it been open (and believe me it wasn't) there was so little of it (a mind) that chewing gum and walking would have cause a core failure!
As the conversation progressed I realised that they kept using the word evidence and yet when prodded and probed it was obvious that their evidence was gleaned from the laboratory that is the pub, newspaper and that oft quoted source: The Friend. They (mis)quoted from their prophets and gurus and (in the name of balance I'm sure) also misquoted Bible and other 'religious' stuff too. They appealed to reason but there was little of it. Pointed to facts, but they were misquotes and error-filled utterances. They spoke of research and yet had never really even read the basic books of either faith (for theist and non-theist are but two opposing faiths - God or Science, free or under authority, self-pleasing or God-pleasing - divide it as you will).
What was sad in these encounters was that both adversaries worked from a position of entrenched ignorance. There was no research into what they or those with whom they disagreed believed (or didn't) and thought. There was no ability (or apparently willingness) to engage in dialogue and find out what the other side believed - just a reliance on the belief that merely opposing, and writing off, the other side was enough.
What was really sad was that neither of the people had even the basic tools to be able to defend their own beliefs and this, in my book (and God's too) is probably the most sad part of the whole.
The way forward (for theists and non-theists):
Please remember that faith engaged in without involving your brain is useless and hollow religion - it is the stuff that ignorance grows in to choke everything that God (or not god) would have us celebrate and renders us an impotent and limited, superstitious and empty people.
So read the books that form the basis of your belief (And where this is the real Bible - read ALL of it, there's 66 books you know!)
Read books about the things you think challenge our faith and find out for yourself.
Read books by people you might think oppose your faith (and people) and dialogue with them, then
Dialogue with people who believe what you believe and check your understanding (and theirs) and, that done, engage in dialogue with people you think you don't disagree with.
Remember that no one group has the monopoly on being good, acting wrongly, being stupid, having closed minds, bias, ignorance, stupidity, blind faith, selfishness, exclusivity and best of all - being just plain ugly people!
How can we say we love God when we hate the image of Him made visible in the person before us?
I scribbled this over a period of weeks - revisiting and rethinking about how what I'd encountered informed and challenged my own position and attitudes. I think that this might be the right time, as we reach the end of 2013, to post it.
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