I cannot move away from concept of eternal punishment and this punishment being separation. I understand the position of the universalists (more about them later) who have a Father Christmas like character who permits all to enter because they can’t bear the thought of a God who deals justly with His creation and who extrapolate this to enjoy the accommodation of a God who, if there must be some sort of punishment, gives the sinner 250mls of Euthatol and drops them in the bin (“Don’t worry madam, we gave Tiddles a dignified send-off!”).
I’m sorry people, but it seems that hell, Gehenna - the rubbish tip where the filth and the fires never cease to be, is pretty much something that is in the script. Not as some form of evening the scores or ‘getting pay back’ (as one really dodgy Christian put it), but because that’s what justice is about. Now, I hear some cry, what about grace?
Well grace exists and is there from the moment of cognisance to the moment just before the very last breath (looks like I don’t do predestination either, doesn’t it?) it is there before us. Jesus dies on a cross and sin, losing its power because death no longer works, is defeated – step right up and take a ticket, free and gratis won for you and yours by faith and through grace! If not you don’t just get what you deserve to have (which could still be considered cruel and wicked) but you get what you have made the conscious decision to have. So many people tell me that they have chosen not to ‘do the Christian thing’ but when the final bit comes I bet they wish they hadn’t (and I exclude secondary probabtion too, so there’s no hope once you’ve pegged it) when they get everything they said they wanted! Being zapped would be preferable to living separate, wouldn’t it?
So we have separation and punishment, which I see conveniently coalesce, and one further element which is the hope the annihilationists pin their hopes on, destruction. If hell is about justice and retribution rather than vengeance and revenge then the destruction that I read of from Paul is destruction of the God bit within us – the soul rather than the flesh bit and so this would cause annihilationists to have fallen short. But they continue because they can’t comprehend a God of love being a God of justice, perhaps those who vote for annihilationism should join the many other ersatz faiths that engage in such thinking and become universalist too?
Of course we can explain away eternal punishment by looking at the word ‘eternal’ and defining it as ‘in a future time’ which means that judgment is not for now but for some other time. The implication being that the punishment is not forever which satisfies the now and the imprecatory nature of things when it is assumed that this is what you get and getting to the end without being dealt with signifies victory. If I am to believe a lecture on this from way back, aionios could be used in this manner with pretty persuasive (and perhaps accommodating) results but it doesn’t remove the ‘eterna;’ element from everything else, does it, and if it doesn’t then why should the accommodation exist other than to support temporal (and temporary) caveats? A single act of judgment, punishment and then an eternity of continued presence or being as if you never were – all sounds a bit limp on one side and triumphal on the other, not balanced at all.
I have to apologise, but the quickly scribbled thinking from the top of my bonce and the depths of my heart coupled with the thin theological understanding I possess lead me to a place where I cannot see past what I believe in to a position where we make God frilly and sweet by avoiding giving the people what they want – life serving themselves and eternity separated from Him!
You pays your money and makes your choice – don’t say no one told you ;)
Pax
3 comments:
As you may know, Vic, I'm a universalist and have been for 10 years (since being 'converted' to that position by Charles Slagle). My immediate response having read the above is is this the gospel: 'You pays your money and makes your choice – don’t say no one told you'?! Doesn't sound like very good news to me...
Sounds like great news to me if you've made to choice to live in the victory Christ wins for us on the cross. The offer is made, the good news of restoration of relationship with God is presented and the decision is made.
Can't think of anything better than that!
The idea that we can live for self, deny God in the way we live and still reap the benefits of having lived and believed differently - that would be the act of an extra-biblical, unjust God.
Still, it would save us having to preach the Gospel if all got in wouldn't it :)
No - think it's exceptionally good news, Christ died for me (and you and you and ..) - just have to reach out and say thank you and live because of that act in gratitude.
Simples?
Pax
I would rather have a god who blesses what I do and wants me to be happy than one who sets conditions and has expectations of me living in denial of all that I am. God blesses me where I am and blesses me whatever I do because he calls us to be happy.
When life ends and Christ returns he gathers all into his presence regardless of faith (or none) professed or how we've lived - Jesus died for all and so ALL get to be in whatever heaven is. The "eternal punishment' is merely something added to the Bible by those who wish to control and condemn.
Still - thank you for posting the thread at least is says you are thinking and hopefully will come to a fuller and more open understanding.
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