Wednesday 5 October 2011

Ecumenism - A view from the shelter!

Being 'Churches together' (CT) appears to be a rather variable feast in that it brings a plethora (oooh, what a nice word) of benefits, hindrances and neutral happenings.

One of the biggest strengths of being in fellowship with other Christians has to be the fact that this is putting flesh on the 'See how these Christians love one another," thing! The unity that can be developed by having an effective, and real, go at being Church together is worth its weight in banane chips.

The downside is that having a go at ecumenism means that we end up in bed with some theologies and thinking that we might otherwise maintain an otherwise healthy distance from. There are even some groups, if the stories are true, who have opened their doors to groups I regard as decidedly not Christian (Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons and Quakers to name but three).

There are benefits in bringing together the whole spectrum of Christian, from rampant liberal to ultra-orthodox, high-church to happy-clappy, bicyclng, nutters (a quote from a self-professed happy-clappy nutter!). Anabaptists, paedobaptist, pro and anti, informed and confused or unthinking. When there is diversity of thinking (and belief) there is also the potential to learn and understand the what, hows and whys.

The problem is that we tend not to share what makes us different and so before we know it we have a large mass of material that we dare not discuss lest it has an impact upon our unity. If we don't talk about it and carefully avoid referring to anything contentious we will survive, but the question is, what as?

The good thing is that is we work together for the benefit of the whole Church then we don't find ourselves regarding others as merely being in the business of self-interest and sheep-stealing. When we lose the unity we bring in the distrust of each other and lose collegiality for competition and this is where the Church really starts to lose out.

One of the key things of the Churches Together group where I am is that they covenanted together that where something could be done as a corpus then it would. The churches acted to work together and by so doing, they brought about relationships and trust which benefitted all. The problem is that in these financially challenging days we have the situation where within some of the Churches Together groups, and even within multiple benefice entities, clusters, circuits, parishes and the like, some are looking to pull up the ladder and look to their own, rather than the wider, interests of Church.

Where you find yourself today, in the church, fellowship or gathering that you are part of, what is the relationship with others who call themselves Christian. How are you working as a parish, cluster, circuit or whatever? How are you seeking to bless the others in the place you live and how are you blessing those other Christians around you?

We need to be careful lest we find the words of Tertullian (Apologetis ch.26) be made true:

"Vide", inquiunt, "ut invicem se diligant" - ipsi enim invicem oderunt - "et ut pro alteruto mori sint parati"; ipsi enim ad occidendum alterutrum paratiores erunt.

"Look," they say, "how they love one another" (for they themselves hate one another); "and how they are ready to die for each other" (for they themselves are readier to kill each other).


Pax

9 comments:

Rob Crompton said...

I would be very surprised indeed if JWs have joined in with any inter-denominational ventures, given that they believe all religions apart from themselves belong to the devil. But if you are aware of any instances of even the slightest form of cooperation between JWs and others I'd love to know about it.

Vic Van Den Bergh said...

I am aware of one group that invited JWs to be involved with them. I won't name and shame (not my right) but I did have discussion with one of the leaders when it happened.

Apparently I was "One of those people who would rather exclude than include!"

Nice to have a different label affixed :•)

Vic Van Den Bergh said...

Having just done a search I have found a few with both JWs and Quakers in their groups.

One even advertising a JW special event at the Kingdom Hall - special welcome to all.

Interestingly the JW group are billed as not having the traditional Christian views on everything but having a common place in the Bible! Frightening!!!

Rob Crompton said...

Vic,if this is actually happening - beyond CT groups extending an invitation - then it would be very interesting indeed.
You might be interested in this quote from my own 1996 study of the JWs:

"If the steady increase in membership...were to be reversed were to be reversed, it would not represent merely the decline of a movement which has seemed to the mainstream to be at best an irrelevance and at worst a nuisance. Rather, it would represent the dispersal into the mainstream of an influence which has until now appeared too remote to cause concern."

Hope you don't think this is simply self-promo on my part. So I'll not give full reference unless you ask for it.

Vic Van Den Bergh said...

No, don't think it's self promotion at all - I find the move by the LDS and the invitation of some groups into interfaith meetings and then into a relationship with CT groups (often as a social, informal and 'we're all involved in the same area' sort of thing) rather daunting.

The two cases I knew of were where they invited the local Kingdom Hall to a 'pray for the village/love nnnn' sort of thing and they took up the offer as it offered legitimisation to those who knew no better. They then extended the invitation to other meetings which were Christian rather than interfaith (mind you, I have a problem with that because it still offers a legitimisation).

My quick search brought up what appeared to be Christian ecumenical groups with JWs on the their listing.

Thanks for post - be interested in anything you can contribute (fancy a post?).

regards,

V

Anonymous said...

Neither Witnesses or Mormons are members of CTBI but Quakers are and I am suprised that you don't consider them to be Christian. I always thought they were but confess that I don't really know much about them.

I did come across a group of "Christians together" who had relationships with the local JW Church and had them come to their meetings when I was in the NW of England. I think they had a parting of the ways after some of the members said they felt that was wrong.

Where can I find out more about the Quakers as their site isnt that helpful?

Thank you for this thread.

B

Vic Van Den Bergh said...

Hello B,

Take a look at: Christian Brands - Quakers. Might help?

Also got JW and LDS (Mormons) in same setting.

Pax

V

Rob Crompton said...

It really is fascinating that this may be going on, and I shouldn't be surprised by it. Your post prompted me to re-read my most recently published paper on the JWs. (Epworth Review, January 2001) In it I even envisaged this sort of thing beginning to happen.

It's very difficult to keep up-to-date, however so even though I have come across some evidence of emerging openness in the JW community - which I'm not at liberty to share - I can't really add anything to what I published in 96 and 01.

I think I'd better stick to fiction!

Vic Van Den Bergh said...

Fiction often appears to be truth that's waiting for reality to catch up!