I have had a rather charming, and challenging, conversation with someone who has supported their spouse along the road to selection and had to pick up the many fragments that scattered the route back after they received something other than a resounding 'yes' at conference.
They highlighted the pleasure and the pain as doors were opened and then, in one final and dramatic act, apparently slammed shut. The frustration at the time it took to reach the endpoint and the ways in which the news was communicated and them feeling abandoned and betrayed. The upset that having looked for a job near to the intended college the plans were not only dashed at the 'possibly going to' end but caused issues with the 'possibly leaving end' too (telling your head that you might well be leaving and then not and finding they have already tentatively found a replacement apparently goes down quite badly).
The preparing the children for a change of home and then having got them excited about going, having to tell them you're staying!
I don't know how we can do it better. Perhaps we need to ensure that successful candidates at selection are given a year's shadowing their home church clergy before college to provide a naturtal gap should selection fall apart. The fact that the candidate feels abandoned is something that we, the church, must get to grips with; the support for the spouse and family of a candidate who returns with altered timescales or direction is equally (perhaps more) important too!
I've started a new section on the cavedwellers forum (goes live tonight) for people to share, explore, discuss and bleed over the issue of discernment, calling and selection. If anyone would like to come and contribute please feel free to either go to the forum and join or mail me and I'll set them up with a login and password.
We need to discuss and learn from our mistakes so that we can provide a positive and supportive environment for those exploring ministry (in all its forms) and those whose direction has changed as the process progresses.
'No one get ordained alone if they are married and it's not just the candidate that feels the pain if it falls.'
Thank you to the person who gave me that thought - may God bless you and yours as the process to be in the right place continues.
Showing posts with label selection. Show all posts
Showing posts with label selection. Show all posts
Friday, 26 April 2013
Wednesday, 24 April 2013
Selection: Not 'No' but 'Not Yet'
Amazed at the amount of conversations I've had regarding the can of worms that is offering oneself for ministry and the selection process.
Stunned by those who have heard, 'No, now go away,' even though often this response was indeed tacit (and yet was supported by the actions and attitudes of those who should most assuredly know better).
Sure, that when the response has been 'No' or 'Not Yet' the response of sending churches ( and especially the incumbent), DDOs and others should be (in my best Michael Caine voice and sensitive to gender considerations):
'Hang on lads, I've got a great idea . . .'
Some of my greatest joys in my ministry life have come from having worked with people who have returned from a BAP or DAP (hereafter referred to as 'selection') with a 'Not yet' or 'Not this calling'.The reason for this is greater that the sum of the parts but contains these elements:
Wrong language: Where submission, sense of calling, collegiality, collaboration and humility are to be sought, selectors have heard the opposite or mixed messages.
I always seek to get those I work with to explain what ordination will enable them to be, do, or do differently. One person who had come after a 'Not Yet' took great pains to explain that the honest answer was 'Nothing!' A response that demanded the questions, 'So why have you applied?' and 'How did you end up at selection conference!'
The response showed someone who was already in what was, dog collar and label aside, a ministry role. The key wax to unlock the passion for that calling and provide the words that invited exploration and revealed the calling (already recognised but needing to be ratified ).
Wrong Ideas: Quite a few people think that they should be ordained because , 'I don't have enough time to do what I do in church and do my job outside!'
This could well be calling to ministry but I could also be the result of being someone who can't say no or possesses poor time management skills (or both). I tend to regard 'doing' as something that shows commitment to the body and evidence of discipleship, but there are some who see it as the establishing of a track record and supporting evidence, The ' why' is more important than the 'what' for me - it's often a clincher in discerning vocation!
Just wrong: the dog collar who sends someone because they are doing and this needs recognition and reward in ordination or a Lay Ministry role. Ordination and ministry roles are not rewards, they are who we are released to be!
Wrong; Not investing time and effort in those who come forward before and regardless of outcome if selection conference is met, afterwards too. As discernment process moves on, opportunities and avenues of ministry should be walked along with an eye for the right fruit for those who accompany you. It's not what the role is, but that it fulfils and mutually defines the person seeking and the role itself.
NOT YET indicates something that is both ongoing and being actively engaged with. If you are the proud possessor of o e of these then you are still very much engaged in the discerning of joy vocation and so should others be!
So get out there and be a blinking nuisance!
Chivvy your clergy ( remember the widow and the magistrate?).
Chase your vocations people and challenge them to help you find the right shaped hole for you (and worry if they eventually meet you late at night in the woods with a shovel).
Talk to the pointyhatted ones and explain where and what and why (absolutely serious step - not to be taken lightly and realising they are busy, but ultimately have the cure if your soul as their charge (and remember what happened to Thomas å Becket!!).
Carpe diem (which auto text corrects to 'carpet firm') - grab the opportunities, listen to the witness of God (internally and from others) and don't lose sight of that which you feel called to. Talk about it (but don't become a bore!), prayer about if(and don't forget to listen), read about it (the more you understand the clearer your conversation can be) and be tenacious (stubborn).
Seek out those who will listen, advise (critically) and live you on your journey - for we are family and brother-in-arms and must Luce as such.
Pax
Stunned by those who have heard, 'No, now go away,' even though often this response was indeed tacit (and yet was supported by the actions and attitudes of those who should most assuredly know better).
Sure, that when the response has been 'No' or 'Not Yet' the response of sending churches ( and especially the incumbent), DDOs and others should be (in my best Michael Caine voice and sensitive to gender considerations):
'Hang on lads, I've got a great idea . . .'
Some of my greatest joys in my ministry life have come from having worked with people who have returned from a BAP or DAP (hereafter referred to as 'selection') with a 'Not yet' or 'Not this calling'.The reason for this is greater that the sum of the parts but contains these elements:
Wrong language: Where submission, sense of calling, collegiality, collaboration and humility are to be sought, selectors have heard the opposite or mixed messages.
I always seek to get those I work with to explain what ordination will enable them to be, do, or do differently. One person who had come after a 'Not Yet' took great pains to explain that the honest answer was 'Nothing!' A response that demanded the questions, 'So why have you applied?' and 'How did you end up at selection conference!'
The response showed someone who was already in what was, dog collar and label aside, a ministry role. The key wax to unlock the passion for that calling and provide the words that invited exploration and revealed the calling (already recognised but needing to be ratified ).
Wrong Ideas: Quite a few people think that they should be ordained because , 'I don't have enough time to do what I do in church and do my job outside!'
This could well be calling to ministry but I could also be the result of being someone who can't say no or possesses poor time management skills (or both). I tend to regard 'doing' as something that shows commitment to the body and evidence of discipleship, but there are some who see it as the establishing of a track record and supporting evidence, The ' why' is more important than the 'what' for me - it's often a clincher in discerning vocation!
Just wrong: the dog collar who sends someone because they are doing and this needs recognition and reward in ordination or a Lay Ministry role. Ordination and ministry roles are not rewards, they are who we are released to be!
Wrong; Not investing time and effort in those who come forward before and regardless of outcome if selection conference is met, afterwards too. As discernment process moves on, opportunities and avenues of ministry should be walked along with an eye for the right fruit for those who accompany you. It's not what the role is, but that it fulfils and mutually defines the person seeking and the role itself.
NOT YET indicates something that is both ongoing and being actively engaged with. If you are the proud possessor of o e of these then you are still very much engaged in the discerning of joy vocation and so should others be!
So get out there and be a blinking nuisance!
Chivvy your clergy ( remember the widow and the magistrate?).
Chase your vocations people and challenge them to help you find the right shaped hole for you (and worry if they eventually meet you late at night in the woods with a shovel).
Talk to the pointyhatted ones and explain where and what and why (absolutely serious step - not to be taken lightly and realising they are busy, but ultimately have the cure if your soul as their charge (and remember what happened to Thomas å Becket!!).
Carpe diem (which auto text corrects to 'carpet firm') - grab the opportunities, listen to the witness of God (internally and from others) and don't lose sight of that which you feel called to. Talk about it (but don't become a bore!), prayer about if(and don't forget to listen), read about it (the more you understand the clearer your conversation can be) and be tenacious (stubborn).
Seek out those who will listen, advise (critically) and live you on your journey - for we are family and brother-in-arms and must Luce as such.
Pax
Monday, 22 April 2013
Selection, Rejection and proper responses
When I said that whilst some who had not been selected felt that they, 'Weren't wanted' and made the remark that, 'This is not what selection does, says or is,' I should have added, 'Or at least shouldn't be!'
One of those who has experienced the dark side of the Church of England's selection process writes:
'I'm sure the church believes this is true. But the system that is in place makes it very difficult to experience being turned down after a BAP as anything other than a rejection, and a violent one at that. If you spend up to two years carefully and often painfully working through a discernment process with your DDO, get recommended to the Bishop, go and see the Bishop and get recommended to a panel, and then are turned down (in my case) primarily on the basis of a single interview with a vocational advisor who you have never met before, it's difficult not to take it very hard. They say it's not rejection, but it sure feels like it.'
One of the things that has impressed me greatly is the support that our DDO has put in place for those who have received a 'No' (or perhaps 'Not Yet").
The other thing that we have is a process whereby potential candidates are met with by Vocations Advisors who help with the discernment and, being one I know this to be true, will say 'No' openly and honestly and work with that person to help them find the niche that exists for their particular form of ministry.
That said there are some whom, if anecdotal evidence is to be believed, send people up the chain because they don't want to be the person who says 'No'; an act which is duplicitous and damaging to the person and the well-being of the church and its ministry. After all, as Matthew 5. 37 tells us, 'All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’. I'd add to that the 'Not Yet' and tell them what they need to do to gain experience, prove abilities yet unseen and the like - anything outside these is fudge or side-stepping the reality and this will lead to more pain and lost ministries in the long run.
Rightly or wrongly, I do have a great deal of confidence in the selection process and whilst when I went through it I found myself in the company of some who knew everything that was coming (even the questions which they'd learnt answers to beforehand!) I have to say that I knew enough to know what to expect in terms of format but everything was pretty much a surprise, a real benefit, as the selectors saw me and not someone else's answers. There is much to discuss concerning preparation, and we will be looking at this (and the fact that no one gets selected, or not, alone - it is a journey and an outcome that affects more than the one who goes off for the conference).
Pax
One of those who has experienced the dark side of the Church of England's selection process writes:
'I'm sure the church believes this is true. But the system that is in place makes it very difficult to experience being turned down after a BAP as anything other than a rejection, and a violent one at that. If you spend up to two years carefully and often painfully working through a discernment process with your DDO, get recommended to the Bishop, go and see the Bishop and get recommended to a panel, and then are turned down (in my case) primarily on the basis of a single interview with a vocational advisor who you have never met before, it's difficult not to take it very hard. They say it's not rejection, but it sure feels like it.'
One of the things that has impressed me greatly is the support that our DDO has put in place for those who have received a 'No' (or perhaps 'Not Yet").
The other thing that we have is a process whereby potential candidates are met with by Vocations Advisors who help with the discernment and, being one I know this to be true, will say 'No' openly and honestly and work with that person to help them find the niche that exists for their particular form of ministry.
That said there are some whom, if anecdotal evidence is to be believed, send people up the chain because they don't want to be the person who says 'No'; an act which is duplicitous and damaging to the person and the well-being of the church and its ministry. After all, as Matthew 5. 37 tells us, 'All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’. I'd add to that the 'Not Yet' and tell them what they need to do to gain experience, prove abilities yet unseen and the like - anything outside these is fudge or side-stepping the reality and this will lead to more pain and lost ministries in the long run.
Rightly or wrongly, I do have a great deal of confidence in the selection process and whilst when I went through it I found myself in the company of some who knew everything that was coming (even the questions which they'd learnt answers to beforehand!) I have to say that I knew enough to know what to expect in terms of format but everything was pretty much a surprise, a real benefit, as the selectors saw me and not someone else's answers. There is much to discuss concerning preparation, and we will be looking at this (and the fact that no one gets selected, or not, alone - it is a journey and an outcome that affects more than the one who goes off for the conference).
Pax
Saturday, 24 March 2012
Vocations - Looking at language
One of the consistent things that I find occurring when it comes to helping people discern their calling to ministry is the use of language.
People will often come in speaking of 'authority', a word that will cause many to immediately harbour doubts about the reason for the calling that is being claimed, when what they mean is perhaps more correctly labelled as 'testing, submission and of having been approved'.
On my journey, one of the important things in ordination was the fact that those who are ordained are:
i. Have been tried, tested and approved
ii. Are in submission to those above.
On the first day at that place one of the staff asked us who the greatest leader was. Being in the big concrete sleeping bag that bears the name of a certain great leader theirs was the first name out of the bag, quickly followed by many others until, exasperated the Colour Sargeant asked where the padres were and who was it they worked for?
yes, the answer was 'Jesus'! Someone regarded by as a great leader because He came to serve. This is the true nature of authority - submission and service.
I hope this helps clarify some of the thinking around vocations
Pax
*Those who were not selected (this is not 'rejected'*) will be offered help in discerning their vocation and may return to a BAP at a later date or find their calling fulfilled in a different area of ministry. This is not the end of 'calling' (of which our baptismal calling is the greatest calling we have).
People will often come in speaking of 'authority', a word that will cause many to immediately harbour doubts about the reason for the calling that is being claimed, when what they mean is perhaps more correctly labelled as 'testing, submission and of having been approved'.
On my journey, one of the important things in ordination was the fact that those who are ordained are:
- Recognised as having a 'calling' to something within their own fellowship,
- Are approved by that fellowship and sent to the DDO (Diocesan Director of Ordinands) or vocations adviser,
- Are examined and, perhaps after additional elements (readings groups, etc.), are sent to a selection conference (BAP),
- At the BAP the person is engaged to help clarify the nature of the calling and the best way it can be developed,
- Having been selected, training tales place and once this is completed the person is offered to the wider church (sending diocese having first choice if there is a suitable 'title post') and ordained.
i. Have been tried, tested and approved
- The selection process
- The training experience
- The Title post
ii. Are in submission to those above.
- It is here that, taking the model of Nehemiah, that we can see that those ordained have authority because they submit to authority.
- Just as an officer in the forces is saluted because they hold a commission, it is the queen (whose commission they hold) who is being saluted, not the person - this is devolved power through submission to the monarch.
- Are 'primus inter pares' (first among equals). This doesn't make them the 'Daddy' but makes them someone who is collaborative and supportive of others - true authority.
On the first day at that place one of the staff asked us who the greatest leader was. Being in the big concrete sleeping bag that bears the name of a certain great leader theirs was the first name out of the bag, quickly followed by many others until, exasperated the Colour Sargeant asked where the padres were and who was it they worked for?
yes, the answer was 'Jesus'! Someone regarded by as a great leader because He came to serve. This is the true nature of authority - submission and service.
I hope this helps clarify some of the thinking around vocations
Pax
*Those who were not selected (this is not 'rejected'*) will be offered help in discerning their vocation and may return to a BAP at a later date or find their calling fulfilled in a different area of ministry. This is not the end of 'calling' (of which our baptismal calling is the greatest calling we have).
Monday, 18 July 2011
Age, Sex and Ordination
I have been quite surprised by the number of emails I have received on the 'grey hair, golden boy' post. Seems that there are a few common themes cropping up regarding selection, these are:
1. An obvious feeling that younger is better,
2. An obvious bias towards those who have graduated from Oxbridge returning (quite quickly) to college (often in the same place) as ordinands,
3. Claims of bias towards one group of people (the male/female debate), and
4. Being clergy is a family business!
Regarding the first point, I am aware that there is a desire to see more 'young' ordinands and that there are many who wish to see something like 50% of a diocese's ordinands being under thirty-five. Some of the older people putting themselves forward seem to think that they are being funnelled into other forms of ministry (such as OLM where it exists and if not NSM or Reader or something else.) rather than given encouragement to pursue the calling they feel is upon them.
I was surprised that a few people had mentioned the selection of bright young things from the Oxbridge factories and asking some of those at college, it does seem that there is a fair proportion of those who went to good schools and then on to Oxbridge where they remain and return as ordinands. An argument for this is that the CofE sees these people as a good investment (because they are supposedly bright) and perhaps that good schools and Oxbridge fosters some form of faith within their young people. Then again, a former bishop once told our potty-training group that the CofE was still the greatest gentleman's club in the world - could be that little has changed and the Oxbridge cleric is the gold standard still?
It is strange that I have had comments from women telling me that it is getting harder for women to be selected! To be honest I had expected the opposite because for so long I have had to endure people wittering on about women being 'under-represented' and have heard amazingly frightening stories of people being selected to 'make up the numbers'. Perhaps the tide has turned, but if it has this is equally sad because selection should be about calling not sex (which is different from gender by the way) or colour of which college you went to (bearing in mind that you do need to be able to endure the rigours of theological education).
The 'family business' aspect really shocked me, mind you there were a few at college when I was there who were going to serve their title in the diocese of a Father, God-Father, Uncle or friend of the family and were children of bishops or other clergy! The fact that there were more than one made me laugh but I hear from a few people that in their place of study there are a few who are following in the family business of Anglican ministry. How interesting! (but we will probably never know whether this is real or realised!).
It was interesting to hear from one person that there experience was a number of people whose children had left home and so had, in order to find something to do, had gone off for ordination. I would expect there to be some calling and yet my correspondent says that being 'collared' is merely an extension of the stuff they've done - I hope this is a skewed perspective (or perhaps sour grapes) but am open to information or remedy for this one - seems odd if true and sad (for the person who feels it) if it isn't.
Pax
1. An obvious feeling that younger is better,
2. An obvious bias towards those who have graduated from Oxbridge returning (quite quickly) to college (often in the same place) as ordinands,
3. Claims of bias towards one group of people (the male/female debate), and
4. Being clergy is a family business!
Regarding the first point, I am aware that there is a desire to see more 'young' ordinands and that there are many who wish to see something like 50% of a diocese's ordinands being under thirty-five. Some of the older people putting themselves forward seem to think that they are being funnelled into other forms of ministry (such as OLM where it exists and if not NSM or Reader or something else.) rather than given encouragement to pursue the calling they feel is upon them.
I was surprised that a few people had mentioned the selection of bright young things from the Oxbridge factories and asking some of those at college, it does seem that there is a fair proportion of those who went to good schools and then on to Oxbridge where they remain and return as ordinands. An argument for this is that the CofE sees these people as a good investment (because they are supposedly bright) and perhaps that good schools and Oxbridge fosters some form of faith within their young people. Then again, a former bishop once told our potty-training group that the CofE was still the greatest gentleman's club in the world - could be that little has changed and the Oxbridge cleric is the gold standard still?
It is strange that I have had comments from women telling me that it is getting harder for women to be selected! To be honest I had expected the opposite because for so long I have had to endure people wittering on about women being 'under-represented' and have heard amazingly frightening stories of people being selected to 'make up the numbers'. Perhaps the tide has turned, but if it has this is equally sad because selection should be about calling not sex (which is different from gender by the way) or colour of which college you went to (bearing in mind that you do need to be able to endure the rigours of theological education).
The 'family business' aspect really shocked me, mind you there were a few at college when I was there who were going to serve their title in the diocese of a Father, God-Father, Uncle or friend of the family and were children of bishops or other clergy! The fact that there were more than one made me laugh but I hear from a few people that in their place of study there are a few who are following in the family business of Anglican ministry. How interesting! (but we will probably never know whether this is real or realised!).
It was interesting to hear from one person that there experience was a number of people whose children had left home and so had, in order to find something to do, had gone off for ordination. I would expect there to be some calling and yet my correspondent says that being 'collared' is merely an extension of the stuff they've done - I hope this is a skewed perspective (or perhaps sour grapes) but am open to information or remedy for this one - seems odd if true and sad (for the person who feels it) if it isn't.
Pax
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